Musgrave Says Gay Marriage Battle Most Important One We Face

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 9:16am

This woman needs to be removed from office if this is the most important thing she thinks faces the Senate.

Musgrave goes Batsh*t Crazy Over the Gays

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 9:57am

Let her run off at the mouth--we need all the Senate seats we can get!

[Calvin]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 10:08am

And I'm willing to bet this "values summit" uttered not a word about torture. But they sure enjoyed Pastor Hagee's king ranch chicken casserole!

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 10:15am

Of course it didn't Calvin--They also ignored national heatlth care, Darfur, rebuilding the Gulf Coast, building better relationships with the Muslim world...but they did talk about:

10:45 - 11:15 a.m. THE PRESERVATION OF TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE - Rep. Marilyn Musgrave, Professor Robert George, Maggie Gallagher, Peter Sprigg (moderator)

2:00 - 2:30 p.m. HOLLYWOOD IN THE HEARTLAND - Tommy Tenney, Ted Baehr, Don Feder, Jonathan Flora (moderator)

4:00 - 4:20 p.m. ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE CULTURE WAR - Attorney General Phill Kline (KS), Former Attorney General Mark Earley (VA), Tom McClusky (moderator)

4:50 - 5:20 p.m. WHAT FEMINIST MAJORITY? AMERICAN WOMEN AND THE VALUES AGENDA - Myrna Blythe, Kathryn Jean Lopez, Connie Mackey (moderator)

and the scariest of all:

3:30-4:00 p.m.

In Defense of Mixing Church and State from Acts 16 - Regency Ballroom Rick Scarborough, President, Vision America


Must See BS

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 10:50am

If they want to fix marriage they gotta start somewhere else. I think it is an important battle in this country, but the wrong approach.


Linking Religion, Divorce Rate Faulty

By Dr. Brent Barlow

The Deseret News recently published a New York Times News Service article titled "Divorce is Soaring in Bible Belt." The article noted attempts by various groups "to bring down a divorce rate that in Oklahoma, as in several other states in what is sometimes referred to as the Bible Belt, is among the highest in the country." The article elsewhere noted a troubling paradox. The divorce rate in much of the area where evangelical Christianity is particularly strong is roughly 50 percent above the national average.

From these and other insinuations in the article, readers might be drawn to the conclusion that religion is a major contributing factor to divorce in some areas of the United States. Similar implications have been made regarding divorce statistics and religion in Utah. Care should be exercised in making hasty assumptions.

Researchers have recently pointed out that divorce among a substantial number of evangelical Christians living in the Bible Belt might be attributed to low income rather than religious beliefs. This is particularly so when the couples are living on minimal incomes in economically depressed areas.

Marrying at a young age was also suggested to be a contributing factor to divorce in some of these areas. Any marriage will suffer, regardless of religious affiliation or lack of it, when couples marry young and the income approaches or is below the poverty line.

Divorce rates have been reported and compared on a state-by-state basis in the United States for the past five decades. Utah has had "a higher than average" divorce rate in all but three years, a trend often reported in the media, both local and national. Since about 70 percent of the residents of Utah are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, implications have been made that the divorce rate is high among Latter-day Saints.

Divorce rates reported nationally are usually based on the annual number of divorces per 1,000 people in any given state. These statistics are sometimes distorted because states such as Utah and some Bible Belt states have a higher percent of the population married. This is often so because of the beliefs of other religious denominations sanctioning marriage in these areas.

The fact is that the divorce rate in Utah has usually been closer to "average" than "above average." For example, if the average divorce rate for the nation was 4.5 per 1,000 population then Utah's divorce rate would be 4.6 or just one-tenth of a percent higher. And Utah's divorce rate is relatively low when viewed from geographical perspectives. Utah has consistently had the lowest divorce rate of the eight Intermountain states (Utah, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Nevada.)

In addition, divorce rates are lowest in the eastern United States and highest in the Western states. Furthermore, divorce rates are lowest in the northern states and highest in the southern regions of the United States. These trends occur regardless of where religious denominations are concentrated.

If the United States were divided into four general geographical sections, Utah usually has the lowest divorce rate of any state in three of the four areas (Northwest, Southwest and Southeast). Only states in the northeast section of the United States, where a disproportionate number of states are concentrated and median income relatively high, have lower divorce rates.

Religion may sometimes be a contributing factor to divorce. But religious affiliation and church attendance more often stabilize marriages than weaken them. Jernian and Nock found in their analysis of a national sample of individuals "that those who attend church weekly, regardless of denomination, are slightly more than one-third, or 36 percent, less likely to divorce than those who never attend."

Articles such as the one distributed by the New York Times News Service do a great injustice by implying that religious affiliation or church attendance in any area, including states in the Bible Belt, is a major cause of divorce when just the opposite has been found to be true.

Brent A. Barlow of Orem is the chairman of the Governor's Commission on Marriage.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 10:50am

why should they care about anything but the supposed "Culture wars?" If they win that one, the rest of the stuff will all be a moot point; a little comma, if you will, in the great history of America.

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 10:55am

Why is marriage an "important battle" me?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 10:59am

Well, I'd say it's just important inasmuch as the people fighting to "defend" marriage are looking at the wrong root causes of problems when clearly, heterosexuals are doing plenty to destroy this so-called fine institution all on their own.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 11:05am

How many heterosexual divorces have YOU caused today?

I count 7 so far this morning. I just have to look at 'em and they file.

PalJoey
MarriageBuster

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 11:06am

And these are the same hypocritical people who proudly and serenely stand at the altars, dressed in white gowns, and promise before their Gods to love, honor and cherish (and/or obey) each other until DEATH DO US PART!

Or until they change their minds. Heh. Just kidding.

Maybe they ought to look homeward first... and fight the evil "battle of divorce" that has done more to destroy their institution of marriage... literally.

I choke on the unmitigated hypocrisy!

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 11:19am

We need to elect people to positions of authority in the states and in the United States Congress, and we need to fight the good fight for our children and our grandchildren.

... unless of course those children or grandchildren are gay. In which case, we must fight them to the death.

Updated On: 9/28/06 at 11:19 AM

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 11:42am

I don't think marriage should be an issue at all. Its roots as a financial and property arrangement have morphed into a Hollywood/In Style fantasy of the 1950s tract housing ideal.

Marriage is very difficult and most people are simply not up to the task. Myself included.

When people married for survival, it was a different institution. Now that our society has evolved, the reasons for marriage have changed as well.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 12:02pm

It's not the most important issue gays face, but it is important for those who want the right and as a symbol that could domino effect the rest of the issues we are fighting for. Those who don't believe in marriage should have the right to not get married by choice--not by default.

The most important issue is, of course, the violence that comes to gays and to transgendered people. We need to educate people and then things will change--and will start changing on every issue.

But, I think we are capable of multitasking, and I hope that when Spitzer is elected Governor, we see gay marriage becoming legal in New York.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 12:05pm

Marilyn Musgrave: Making me ashamed to be a Coloradan since 2004.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 12:40pm

Marriage is traditionally and cross-culturally a means of legitimizing the birth of children. Living outside of monogamy works well for some, but it causes a lot of problems with our current way of life in the US. I think it's important to us that marriage be used to legitimize children (as a standard not a law). At this point in our history classism is abound and many children suffer in ridiculous poverty in the richest nation in the world. One would hope that religion would work to support and encourage any or all types of unity and stress the importance and responsibility of bringing children into this world.

Gay marriage is a political tool used to confuse and unite Christians of all denominations. Though I know personally that single family homes can and do work, the ramifications of the majority low-income single families is devastating and only continues a cycle of poverty. The institution of marriage does need work but in our culture it is vital. Go to any housing project in the US and meet the many women and children stuck in a world where marriage does not matter.

As far as gay marriage, I have felt discrimination firsthand. I was in love with foreign national and when push came to shove (4 years later), I was unable to offer sponsorship by marriage. I can't tell you how that made me feel as an American. If the only argument for marriage in this country was to ensure we could fully sponsor a long-term monogamous lover then it would be worth the battle.

There are a lot of self-hating gays and straights that really think marriage is a farce. (That is fine) It is not just some stupid document for the rest of us. For many gay people marriage is important. For me when I was denied the same rights as my brother I realized the very importance of the institution. I know why the government has a rule in place for sponsorship and I respect that. I just don't have the rigth to use it.

I do not want the government using Church to control state. I want the government to unconditionally offer equal rights to everyone. Though the Government and religion both share responsibility to support and encourage the well being of the entire population.

Gay marriage in not the main battle for gays today. Gay people in this country need to be addressing the blatant use of unconstitutional discrimination in the military. Gays in the military is an open and shut case of discrimination. There isn’t even a debate.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 1:09pm

The discrimination in the military has been made debatable via the legal precedent that the military does not and should not have to be constricted by all of civilian law. It is quite unfortunate. I think we'll win this one sooner than later. And if we win gays in the military, marriage will not be far behind: how can you ask a man or woman to die for his or her country, but not offer them equal rights?

Marriage has been about many things, but it has evolved considerably throughout history despite the protestations of the religious right. And when they proclaim that marriage is about children:

1. what about married couple who don't want children?
2. what about married couples who need/choose to adopt?
3. what about gay couples who have children or want children?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 1:12pm

The only slight hole to the argument that marriage strength and promotion could fight poverty is that, not long ago, families WERE supported on one, single income. That it now takes two full-time working parents to raise a family with any financial stability speaks less to the eroding institution of marriage as it points a finger at the greedy capitalism that abounds in our culture today.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 2:35pm

You're right about capitalism. But at least with a two parent family there are more options.

jrb_actor - Does the Right proclaim " that marriage is about children?” I have never heard that. I always hear Bush say he defines marriage between a man and a woman. I guess I tuned out the rest. I wish they would say that. I guess if the Right allows gay marriage, it could legitimize gay parenting?

I only brought up children because that is where marriage has its most fundamental roots. I know in this culture and many others property/wealth and blood lines are important, but not the roots. Marriage was/is not always about being faithful or monogamous either.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 4:29pm

yup. they think that's how they win their argument--that same sex couples can't reproduce and that children need a man and a woman at home despite a country full of single parents.

like all arguments against gays, it's full of holes and hypocrisy, but for the fearful and hateful, it sticks.

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 4:37pm

What gives people the notion that 'everyone is against gay marriage' and things like that? If that was the case, there would be no 'battle', and there would be no gays! What's she on?

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 4:46pm

Why is it that you gays are being so selfish? It's not about you or the straights. It's about the children. We must protect the innocent minion of toddlers and toddlers-to-be from the evils of faggotry.

As I have stated once before today, won't someone think of the children?!

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 4:48pm

I think of them every time I eat one.

[WOSQ]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 4:48pm

Marilyn Musgrave (a name right out of the witness protection program) needs to get a life of her own because she sure as hell cannot have mine, no matter what her legislative dreams may be.

Why doesn't she get a job?

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 4:51pm

Spit it out, bway! It has to be dressed and at Our Lady of Sorrows in ten minutes!

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 9/28/06 at 4:51pm

Too late. I already swallowed and I'm so not bulimic.