My big fat Greeked thread- Page 4

[Craig]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 10:52pm

(I know all too well that HDT will now say as he has said before that "liberal" isn't meant as a slur, but obviously we take it that way)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 10:55pm

Right. And if we were to point out over in the "comic" thread where he's trying to bond with Mr Roxy by claiming that "they" (meaning everybody who is not HD or Roxy) just don't want to give up personal attacks no matter how hard he begs the rest of the board that back over here he was calling TD a senior citizen troll, we all know what HD would say.

Because, HD we've been around this block with you before. But, all together now: "He STARTED it!"

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 10:56pm

"Do you guys know what it is like to NOT be accepted for your views, thoughts, ideals, or something you wanted to make of your life?"

Yes, I do. Try being openly gay for a few years. You'll experience all of that and more.

You don't get special privileges here just because you're in the minority. There is no affirmative action to give you a seat at the table that's free from criticism. If you're feeling persecuted and unappreciated why don't you give a good hard look at the things you've said on this board, and stop blaming everyone else. Just like Newtons 3rd Law states: For every action, there is an equal an opposite reaction. And although he was speaking about the laws of motion, in this case I believe it also applies.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 10:59pm

"You see how your credibility is thin here don't you?"

Yes, I do.

There are no special privileges for being a persecuted minority?


"Do you guys know what it is like to NOT be accepted for your views, thoughts, ideals, or something you wanted to make of your life?"

I'm serious when I make that statement.

Can we drop all of the personal attacks on fellow posters?

No matter how strident you may be in loving the Clintons, I will not attack you as a person for it.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:01pm

And Craig, people used to be proud of being called a liberal. I'm sorry if you think it is a slur.

What should I say instead?

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:02pm

And Namo, I did not start it.

They started in on me immediately. I'm going to do a search, and see if any of that is remaining.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:05pm

Just go away.

Stop trying to suck up now.

No one wants to 'discuss' anything with you.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:07pm

The closest HD ever comes to admitting complicity in his situation on this board (cuz, really HD, it's not your politics, it's YOU) is when every once in a while HD says he'd like to start fresh from this moment on. He wants a slate wiped clean and not to offer any amends for his past transgressions. Never does he say "I want to start over because I really have been a pain in the ass" or anything to that effect. The closest I have ever seen was in this thread when I finally presented him with the evidence of his PMs to me he said "I guess I was wrong."

That was the ONLY time I have ever seen anything coming close to that coming from the posters known as HD. Usually they change the subject.

Here's an analogy that might work for you, HD. Maybe your "friend" has related something like this to you. When the majority of students fail a class, it's a reflection on the teacher.

When I have pointed this out before, that you have managed to alienate the majority of people on this board who read your posts of every political stripe, which objectively is true, you have gone on the attack against me AND them.

Saying they're not Republican enough or your classic mantra, "Do you really think that" this is a diverse group of people? Yeah, I do. It may be true that the majority here consider themselves liberal or progressive (which should MEAN something to such a Majority Rules guy as yourself), there are like three people I can think of who have ever been as insulting and dismissive of us as you have been. And none of them have ever done so as insistently as you, with your never ending new threads designed to take over page one. And even THEY manage to make friends with all sorts of people over other issues.

Not so you. And that's because the problem IS you and your strategies.

ETA There's really no point in the "they started it angle." There are all sorts of people who managed to survive what "they" started when they were new and they grew to be valued and valuable members of this community.

Updated On: 7/28/07 at 11:07 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:10pm

Do I win a cookie for my prediction?

"And Craig, people used to be proud of being called a liberal. I'm sorry if you think it is a slur."

No. I don't consider LIBERAL a slur. I consider your USE of the word liberal as a slur. Because when YOU use the word liberal, it means anyone that doesn't agree with your politics.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:11pm

Ok, so I'm just asking,

Are you speaking on behalf of most of the off-topic board?

Why do you say, I try to take over page 1 of the board?

And, I would like to stop fighting.

As I said, I didn't come on here to make friends. If that happens, great. I am her to discuss.debate. I love it!

I just don't like all of the personal attacks on posters. I think that its totally uncalled for.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:17pm

Christ, this is like a clingy break-up...

It's over! We have drawn the line and we don't want or need to discuss ANYTHING with you.

Just go. Now.


*Holds door open*

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:19pm

You're at cross purposes. You've positioned yourself as an outsider whose very existence depends on not being accepted by the larger group and now you're just want to be accepted by the larger group.

You didn't come here to make friends, you say. Obviously, from the way you've always been it's pretty clear you came here to make enemies. And you've done so.

You talk about wanting a "debate," but that's never anything you've ever been interested in, not really. You're interested in pontificating and then belittling anybody who calls you off your high horse. And you get so BENT OUT OF SHAPE when just cutting and pasting something isn't considered a viable "debate" strategy by people who actually DO discuss things.

You saw it in the Spork Goddess dialogues over Sicko. You saw people who vehemently disagree who were at each other's throats who also, obviously, like one another. I don't blame you for wishing you had figured out a way to do that. I'm sure it's much more pleasant than being as isolated as you are now.

But you're the one who picked up right where the others you claim are not you (except when they are) left off. Everything's in that context. You use the word "liberal" with as much invective as every Xenian on this board before you.

There is nobody else, except the assorted other Xenians who sometimes use your account, who would frame a phrase this way:

"No matter how strident you may be in loving the Clintons ..."

What's funny is, THAT is the example of you acting with what you must see as contrition. At this point you don't even see how alienating a statement like that is. So it's not WHAT you say, it's how you say it.

Updated On: 7/28/07 at 11:19 PM

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:27pm

No, I'm sorry, I do not see how that statement should or would alienate someone, unless the person wanted to be alienated.

I'm saying that if you think the Clintons are great, good for you. Just don't attack me personally for saying that they have some issues with the truth.

It doesn't mean that you are bad person. You might try to convince me that they are wonderful. Fine, but the Bush family is great to me, and I should not be hated for that.

Since you only have the words that I type for you here, you can not make the judgment on my tone of voice or attitude. So, you assign the worst of all possible motives and attitudes to it.

It's not like that.

Not at all. You should see all my friends, and how much fun we have debating politics, shows, everything.

It isn't that I so much desire to be friends with everyone here, that is not important to me.

Bringing some civility to the debate is.

Refusing to attack other posters should be the code around here.

Diva is STILL attacking me now. She has no desire to be civil.

Updated On: 7/28/07 at 11:27 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:34pm

One of the issues against you is that if someone wants to discuss something, you immediately jump into the thread and divert it to something else - complete with your agenda.

A non-political example would be if I wanted to discuss the musical Gypsy and the real June, and you start posting in the thread that West Side Story is entrenched with hispanic stereotypes.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:37pm

Craig, LOL!

I have NEVER done anything that ridiculous.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:37pm

"Since you only have the words that I type for you here, you can not make the judgment on my tone of voice or attitude. So, you assign the worst of all possible motives and attitudes to it."

Then by your own standards, because you can't hear the tone of voice or attitude of the person you accuse of attacking you, you have no justification to say that you're being attacked.

[Craig]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:38pm

"I have NEVER done anything that ridiculous."

Oh. But you have.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:41pm

I really don't think so, Craig. I challenge you to produce it.

There is nothing personal in any of statements against you.

[kjklo]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:48pm

HDT2, for my part, I wish you could see and accept that not everyone who is something other than a right-wing Republican partisan is walking around hero-worshipping or idolizing every single Democratic hack politician. I'm not conservative but I do not now and never have idolized the Kennedys, the Carters, the Clintons, the Gores, the Edwards, etc. Nor do I worship at the altar (or even tolerate) Jane Fonda, Michael Moore or any of the other tiresome cliched canards that you keep throwing up as examples of people that non-conservatives must automatically admire. No, not all of us do. As has been said before, the world is not simply divided into two black and white camps. There are some self-identified leftists on this board whom I disagree with as much as I disagree with you. Most issues have a lot of little nuances. It would be nice if you would acknowledge that the world is a lot more complicated than two camps comprised of "liberals" and "conservatives."

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:49pm

But burning polyester does make fumes!

By banning it from the board might mean keeping vital information away from people who might need it.

Unlike you digging up tired threads from the past to try and prove that you aren't a tired mess.

[HDThoreau2]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:53pm

kjklo" I acknowledge it and I agree with it!!!

You know, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer and others are all about partisan ship, and it does win elections.

Perhaps, I don't need to be so stridently partisan in all of my writings.

You have to admit though, we are a nation sharply divided at this point in our history.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:56pm

I don't come to dislike somebody as strongly as I have come to dislike you and the Xenia crew who preceeded you (and who now occasionally fill in for you) without doing as thorough an examination of the situation as I can.

And one of the things I have learned is that some days you bug the crap out of me. When I see four new threads with one of your two or three pet liberal baits in the titles I actually think that you're one of the few people I have never met in person whom I actually hate.

Other times, you strike me as sort of a gnat. Those half a dozen page one thread titles you've started make me think of a child jumping up and down and up and down saying "Notice me! Look at me!" with the same recombinant jabs that show up with startling regularity on Chanticleer's blog ("he wants you to know your ISPs have all been recorded!") At those times I'm either laughing at you, or ignoring you.

I've come to believe that different individuals react to you at different places along their personal frustration scales at different times on this board. It's like biorhythms. Some days some people abhor you, some days people toy with you, and some days some people are laughing at you or ignoring you. The interesting thing is that this isn't happening at the same time for all posters. I'm sure if all of us were at the "ignore him" stage for a long enough period of time simultaneously, you'd just end up leaving because it appears that what you want more than anything is the reaction. ANY reaction.

You came on like gangbusters from the beginning and you used the terminology that you SAY is devoid of tone but it's terminology that was used by Xenians before you and that bears a striking similarity to your posts today. Many people choose to ignore you outright. Actually, I think that's probably most people. When you're baiting and fishing for a specific response, some people seem to like to fluster you. And other times, when people are at the further end of their personal frustration scales with you, they go for the throat.

I think that's where Diva is tonight. And Lord knows, I have been there too. I know you WANT to position the whole thing as simply being about "civility" as if it has nothing to do with you. You SPECIFICALLY. And how YOU are. (I know, I know, you feel that "they" started it, as if that justifies everything). But that really seems to be the part that you really can't look at or are unable to face, honestly. Maybe when you've lived a little, or get out of Ohio, or something.

Obviously I've spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff and spent a lot of time typing it up tonight. I now know that I have done everything in my power to make myself 100% clear about where I stand with you, and why I think you're setting yourself up for nothing but frustration if you think the whole problem is just that the "debate" (and clearly, you have a very different definition of that word than 90% of the people here) is sometimes "not civil."

The "debate" is a whole lot of things, including not a debate.

But I really don't think you're insightful enough to learn about your own complicity in your situation here on the board. I see no evidence that you've ever thought to look at how other people who are closer to you politically than the majority of the people on this board have managed to make their way here and become important parts of this community. In fact, I've seen you do nothing but mock them when I've suggested you do just that.

You can't claim now to want to be part of something you have set yourself outside of, with all the attendant credibility issues you have, and suddenly get your proverbial slate wiping and expect to be accepted by the people you have universally labelled as recently as today as "Manhattan elites." And yes, YOU mean that as a nasty insult.

So, I'm about typed out. I think you have an almost impossible road ahead on this site for all of the reasons I have taken the seemingly interminable time to put down here. I'm sure part of you wants to just viciously trash it like you did my post congratulating Mr. Roxy for trying something new in his movie choices last night. (Did that make you feel good, by the way?)

But there's a LOT of water under the bridge. And I don't want to be seen as selling TheaterDiva out here, because I think the break-up analogy is pretty apt. Really, it's not about us.

It's you.

[kjklo]

Posted: 7/28/07 at 11:59pm

HD, I would say you definitely don't need to be so stridently partisan.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 12:04am

Great post Namo. And I'm not just saying that to taunt HD. It said everything that needed to be said.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 12:07am

Thanks. I'm SPENT.