My date with the lesbian ; and Larry Craig

[don logan]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:30pm

So a few years ago, I met this woman at a party who was cute, funny, and flirtatious. I thought she might be gay, but she was being very flirty with me. We exchanged numbers and went out on few dates. It started to seem more and more obvious that she was gay, so I flat out asked her on the third date. ( I think I phrased it like," so...I'M hetrosexual....). She said that she was in fact gay, but that she liked to have sex with men sometimes, and that's what she was looking for. I was looking for a relationship, so we parted and agreed to be friends.

So...how does this relate to Larry Craig? There was an argument at work yesterday about whether or not a man (like Larry Craig) can have sex with other men and still be straight. Some people said no, that if you are having sex with men, you are gay. I know this is a complicated issue, but is Craig ( or other married men, usually Republican, who have sex with other men) like the lesbian I went out with? ie, someone who is primarily of one orientation but sometimes has sex outside their orientation? When you heard the story of my date , did you think, " oh she's a closeted heterosexual"?
I'm curious to hear peoples thoughts.

Updated On: 10/26/07 at 12:30 PM

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:37pm

If he likes boys, he's a homosexual

If he likes girls, he's a heterosexual

If he likes both, in any degree, he is a bisexual

It's really VERY simple.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:40pm

It could be the same thing, I guess, at least on the surface. The difference with your lesbian friend is that she doesn't seem to be acting duplicitous.

And women (in my experience) seem to have the ability to be more fluid in their sexuality.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:43pm

oh yeah, women are all about sexual fluids.

[don logan]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:43pm

So you would say that Craig is bi? I'm of the opinion that everyone is bi to some degree.

Updated On: 10/26/07 at 12:43 PM

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:48pm

I've known a lot of gay guys who had sex with girls pretty often but still identified as gay. I don't really get it because I have no desire to have sex with a girl but what can you do?

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:49pm

My opinion is that Craig is a self-loathing closeted homosexual.

I know plenty of men that are very comfortable with their sexuality... who can easily be intimate with both males and/or females. And they are open about it. Some are like your "date" who have relationships with women, but every now and then like to have sex with men, some are the other way around.

[Calvin]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:50pm

Maybe they call themselves gay instead of bisexual because of the aversion by many in the gay community to date anyone who identifies as a bisexual?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:52pm

I would guess Craig is gay, because of the shame, denial, protestations and the allegations that have plagued him throughout his life.

[don logan]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:55pm

"Maybe they call themselves gay instead of bisexual because of the aversion by many in the gay community to date anyone who identifies as a bisexual?"

yeah why is that? Is it the same aversion that there is in the straight community to date anyone who is bisexual? Does that mean that people who are bi are shunned by both straights and gays?

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 12:58pm

I think the reason people would rather not get involved with a bi is because there will always be the temptation they will wander back to the other side.

[Calvin]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:00pm

There have been volumes written on it -- lots of it around stereotypes, thinking that bisexuals are self-loathing gays who are trying to hold onto some last bastion of straightness, that they're traitors if they start dating someone of the opposite sex or that they're somehow more promiscuous than anyone else and will basically screw anything that moves (oddly enough, one of the big components that fuel homophobia: the inability to distinguish between attraction to a gender and attraction to a specific person).

I can't count the number of times I've been asked during a date whether I was bisexual. When I answer no, the answer is almost always: "Good."

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:06pm

As someone who is not bi, but gay, I can only speak from experience. I think quite a lot of gay guys have been burned by bisexual guys and I think quite a lot of bi guys have been shunned by those who strictly identify as gay.

I think there can be resentment, too, because the bi could essentially "pass" as straight. It doesn't make it right, but there it is. Namo once posted a comment about a friend of his who was bi but understood the political significance of referring to himself as gay. I think perhaps sometimes gay folks think bi folks are reaping the rewards of the gay struggle without having to actually toil in the trenches. This isn't true in all cases, of course.

I always hear that straight women don't want to date bi guys because they're convinced they'll ultimately run off with a guy. I've dated two bi guys in my life and both left me for women. It hasn't made me leary of dating bi guys, though, but I've never been one to judge an entire group by the action of a couple members.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:07pm

Interestingly enough, in the past few months I've met several married couples where the husband plays around with guys, and the wife at least seems to be totally understanding. I have yet to meet a gay couple where it's ok for one of the partners to sleep around with women... other guys, ok, but women... not so much.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:18pm

I'll admit that I do feel wary about dating bi guys because I have this odd paranoia that they will leave me for a girl (not that I'm really all that into dating anyway). This is mostly because I have a prejudice that most guys who identify as bi are either really self loathing gays or are just waiting for the right girl to come along and don't mind where the sex comes from.

This is unfair because a guy could just as easily dump you for another guy as a girl, so I suppose it's a really dumb paranoia.

[Calvin]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:20pm

Well, there's another component to it. If you get dumped for another guy, you just think, "He's a pig." If you get dumped for a girl, the natural thought progression is "Wow. Did I turn him off men altogether?" Just like that last girl you dated before you came out must have felt.

Notice I didn't say rational thought progression -- but natural.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:26pm

I just find it interesting that in those cases I know, the women seem to be able to handle their husbands sleeping with other men, they're not that threatened by it. Or appear to, at least.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:26pm

It's natural to have abandonment issues...that's what is at stake, and why set yourself up for a 50/50 shot at being abandoned.

It isnt rational, it's human nature.

[Pip]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:45pm

Seems like it all still boils down to how we are wired. Some people are wired to be attracted exclusively to their own gender. Some people are wired to be attracted exclusively to the opposite gender. Others fall anywhere in-between. I can't imagine being able to "choose" what turns me on and somehow "change" that wiring.

We shouldn't look down our noses at other's sexuality even though it's hard for us to put ourselves in their shoes. That seems to smack too much of what the OTHER side does to us!

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 1:56pm

Well we're not talking about looking down on bisexuals... just how would you feel about dating one?

[Pip]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 2:27pm

I don't have a problem with it. I think if we got serious and he dumped me for someone else I wouldn't be any more or less upset if the "other one" was male or female. I'd just be upset!

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 2:43pm

I think the larger fear is that you dont have something that your partner wants...there is something that you cant sexually provide.

Posted: 10/26/07 at 9:05pm

To paraphrase the great Harvey Fierstein, I'll believe a guy is BiSexual when I hear about one who's sneaking out on his boyfriend to secretly have sex with a woman.

[MatthewAddison]

Posted: 10/26/07 at 9:39pm

Updated On: 9/5/08 at 09:39 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/6/07 at 8:56pm

Bisexuality for dummies