Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests- Page 3
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#50
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:27pm
YouWantItWhen, that's the old definition of the law, which was aimed at coyotes who transport people over the border in trucks, or those who stick them in the holds of cargo ships. The definition's been expanded, and the punishment has been upped. I'll try to find the exact text; hold on.
(And if you think prosecutors won't go for the "aggressive" interpretation, you're much more optimistic than I.)
Updated On: 3/25/06 at 08:27 PM
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#51
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:33pm
Got it!
SEC. 274. (a) Criminal Offenses and Penalties-
(1) PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES- Whoever--
...(I skipped a bit here)
...(C) assists, encourages, directs, or induces a person to reside in or remain in the United States, or to attempt to reside in or remain in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such person is an alien who lacks lawful authority to reside in or remain in the United States;
The "assist" bit is awfully broad, I think.
THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#52
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:34pm
Plum, you don't mean that some of these strict constructionist would ever expand the interpretation of a law to fit their own purposes?
Shocked, I am just shocked.
BTW - the language I quote in the second part of my post was directly from the article you referenced.
And regardless, there have been some awfully broad generalizations made about immigrants, whether legal or illegal. We are country of immigrants, and we all need to remeber that.
Updated On: 3/25/06 at 08:34 PM
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/25/04
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#54
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:43pm
"assists, encourages, directs, or induces a person to reside in or remain in the United States"
This is all a bit broad and surely will be up for interpretation. But my hunch is, like YWIW said, this is more targeted towards people directly (or indirectly) involved in smuggling rings, and not so much aimed at good samaritans. Plus, what good would it do to prosecute/persecute the good samaritan for driving an illegal alien to the hospital, anyway? It's not like they would have medicare to cover it.
"Good luck returning my ass!" - Wilhemina Slater
"This is my breakfast, lunch and f***ing dinner right here. I'm not even f***in' joking." - Colin Farrell
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#55
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:46pmTiff, assume they get driven to a free clinic if you like. The point stands. And how about helping with asylum applications? That's directly helping someone stay in the country. And they're not legal until the application is approved. It's like something out of Catch-22.
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#56
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:49pmso wait... my dad is an emt. if there is a call and he responds and the person he saves is an illeagel imagrent does he get in trouble?
Ugly is beautiful
"My brother plays a drag queen... and I'm surprised he looks as good as he does in drag." - Adam Rapp
"thanks, abba. now i'll forever have an image of you as a tattoed hardcore straightedge grrl savaging people in the mosh pit." - papalovesmambo
"Yeah Abba. All the filthy crap you spew out there on those boards. I for one, am equally shocked. :-P" - AnnaK
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#57
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:52pm
Nah, Abba.
Plum is getting a bit absurd.
And much as I am fond of absurdism...
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#58
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:53pmIt says "knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such person is an alien who lacks lawful authority to reside in or remain in the United States". So unless your dad knows the person he's helping is an illegal, I don't think so. But who knows, maybe some overzealous prosecutor will choose to make an example of the ambulance driver anyway. And I'm not sure of the meaning of "reckless disregard."
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#59
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:54pmNomdeplume, I've been interpreting statutes (correctly, I might add) from the text for over 6 years now. But of course I'm the idiot here.
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#60
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:54pmoh ok... cus the first thing an emt askes is not "can i see your papers?" it's "can you hear me are you ok?"
Ugly is beautiful
"My brother plays a drag queen... and I'm surprised he looks as good as he does in drag." - Adam Rapp
"thanks, abba. now i'll forever have an image of you as a tattoed hardcore straightedge grrl savaging people in the mosh pit." - papalovesmambo
"Yeah Abba. All the filthy crap you spew out there on those boards. I for one, am equally shocked. :-P" - AnnaK
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#61
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:55pmBut you have the cutest screenname going, Plum.
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/25/04
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#62
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:56pmAsylum applications, yes. Free clinics, I don't know. Is preventing a person from dying considered a contribution or encouragment to stay in the country longer? I would say that's hair-splitting. But the asylum argument seems valid.
"Good luck returning my ass!" - Wilhemina Slater
"This is my breakfast, lunch and f***ing dinner right here. I'm not even f***in' joking." - Colin Farrell
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#63
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:58pmShouldn't legislators carry some responsibility to ensure that their legislation isn't so ambiguously worded? To me, it doesn't matter to say that no one would interpret a law outside of its intended context--they shouldn't be able to if it's a well-worded piece of legislation.
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#64
Posted: 3/25/06 at 8:59pm
If you know someone's illegal and you don't report them, you're probably breaking the law, anyway.
(E) harbors, conceals, or shields from detection a person in the United States knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such person is an alien who lacks lawful authority to be in the United States;
Man, I'm totally going to qualify for jail time.
Updated On: 3/25/06 at 08:59 PM
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#65
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:00pm
Plum, I am going to have to agree to disagree with you on how the law is or could be read.
I am not 100% familiar with how the asylum laws work, I would have to read how they are set up to see if this could really be enforced against someone who is attempting to use the legal process set up for asylum seekers. But, your interpretation would make asylum laws totally non-existent. So, unless there is a clear pre-emption of the asylum laws in this bill, which I have not seen, I do not believe this statute can be reasonably interpreted as you describe.
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#66
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:01pm
Why not? Laws don't have to say "we're repealing so-and-so" in order to effectively do so.
Of course we have no idea of how this law will be prosecuted, but the fact that this possibility is even in contention when we have not 1, but 2 milder bills as alternates, really pisses me off.
Updated On: 3/25/06 at 09:01 PM
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/25/04
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#67
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:05pm
harbors, conceals, or shields from detection a person
I think that would imply proactivity on the 'defendant's' part. Turning a blind eye would be different.
"Good luck returning my ass!" - Wilhemina Slater
"This is my breakfast, lunch and f***ing dinner right here. I'm not even f***in' joking." - Colin Farrell
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#68
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:06pm
And I would fight (almost) to the death for the right for you to express your idiocy, Plum.
First blood, anyway.
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#69
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:06pm
I certainly hope so, YouWantItWhen. (Or, more importantly, that juries and judges think so if this law passes.)
Seriously, people. McCain/Kennedy is sitting right there, waiting for advocacy.
Updated On: 3/25/06 at 09:06 PM
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#70
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:07pm
Well, that is a fair argument.
The only problem I have is that you are attacking the bill with talking points clearly from one side, taking the most extreme position possible.
The arguments do not seem objective, and thus tend to not be persuasive to those who may be undecided.
And, if there are two conflicting laws on the books, the courts will not interpret them in a vacuum. Normally you would repeal or amend the specific law that is involved.
But, I like your passion.
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#71
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:08pmwow nomdeplume your really close minded why do you not like anyone coming to america? you wouldn't be here is someone didn't come to america from another country.
Ugly is beautiful
"My brother plays a drag queen... and I'm surprised he looks as good as he does in drag." - Adam Rapp
"thanks, abba. now i'll forever have an image of you as a tattoed hardcore straightedge grrl savaging people in the mosh pit." - papalovesmambo
"Yeah Abba. All the filthy crap you spew out there on those boards. I for one, am equally shocked. :-P" - AnnaK
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#72
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:10pm
I'm not objective at all. :) But the kind of people who form "minutemen" organizations aren't, either.
And isn't this better? It ups border security, creates an unskilled labor visa and makes sure the jobs on that list are seen by Americans first, phases in electronic work authorization, promotes audits to make sure labor standards are being upheld...all that good stuff. Without so much of the "making every illegal a felon" stuff.
Kennedy/McCain bill, main points
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#73
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:13pm
The system as it is isn't working. There's better ways to change it than the Frist bill.
Full text of Kennedy/McCain
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
Nationwide Pro-Immigrant Protests#74
Posted: 3/25/06 at 9:15pmLook at the specifics and details, Abba.
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