New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests
New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/7/04
New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#0
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:24pm
New York Times:
ROME, Sept. 21 - Homosexuals, even those who are celibate, will be barred from becoming Roman Catholic priests, a church official said Wednesday, under stricter rules soon to be released on one of the most sensitive issues facing the church.
...
He said that while Pope Benedict XVI had not yet signed the document, it would probably be released in the next six weeks.
So, instead of moving forward...
Updated On: 9/21/05 at 11:24 PM
Joined: 12/31/69
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#1
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:26pmNo surprise there. I'm only shocked that it took him this long to get it done.
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#2
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:36pm
Homosexuals, even those who are celibate
That's a badly worded phrase. All priests have to be celibate, so the "even those" doesn't really make sense. Maybe "Even though they must be celibate..." Sorry, totally not the point, I know.
I'm still waiting for the Vatican to barr pediphiles from becoming priests; it seems like the new pope should re-evaluate what the real problem is with in the church's "sex scandals".
Wanting life but never knowing how
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#3
Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:39pm
A Houston lawyer plans to challenge the constitutionality of the U.S. diplomatic recognition of the Vatican as he pursues a lawsuit accusing Pope Benedict XVI of conspiring to cover up the molestation of three boys.
The challenge by attorney Daniel Shea is in response to a U.S. government filing recommending immunity for the pope, formerly Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, as a head of state.
"It's patently unconstitutional," Shea, whose client is known only as John Doe I, said Tuesday. "Joseph Ratzinger is not head of state. He's head of a church."
The filing in Houston federal court Tuesday by Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler states that it is in the interest of U.S. foreign policy that the pope have immunity. The government asks U.S. District Judge Lee Rosenthal to find that the pope is immune from the lawsuit under international law.
"The purpose of the suggestion of immunity is to cause the court to dismiss the case against Pope Benedict XVI," said Jeffrey Lena, a Berkeley, Calif., attorney representing the pope.
Shea said that accepting the claim of immunity creates "a conundrum for the church" because the pope has claimed he is the head of a church in earlier filings but now claims he is a head of state.
President Reagan formally recognized the Vatican in 1984 and sent an ambassador. Previous presidents have appointed personal representatives.
The lawsuit also names as defendants the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston, Archbishop Joseph Fiorenza, Monsignor William Pickard and former seminary student Juan Carlos Patino Arango.
The pope, who was still Cardinal Ratzinger when he was added to the lawsuit early this year, wrote a letter in 2001 calling for adherence to a 1962 guideline for dealing with allegations of sexual abuse by the Catholic clergy.
The lawsuit calls the guidelines "a virtual 'green light' for all bishops to actually facilitate, albeit secretly, the sexual exploitation of minors, and even brute animals, by clergy."
The lawsuit charges that Ratzinger's letter was part of a conspiracy that led to the molestation of three boys, listed in court documents as John Does I, II and III, 10 years ago by Patino Arango at St. Francis de Sales Catholic Church in Houston.
Patino Arango fled to Colombia after being indicted by a Harris County grand jury.
By HARVEY RICE
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/20/04
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#4
Posted: 9/22/05 at 1:31amWhat's that you say? The Vatican has a gay bar for priests?
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/7/04
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#6
Posted: 9/22/05 at 2:05amAs a Catholic I find serious issues with sexual orientation mattering when it comes to joining the priesthood. If you ask me (which clearly no one did) as long as you practicing celibacy as the vows state, then it should not matter what your sexual orientation is. Yes, I understand that the Catholic church says that homosexuality is in itself wrong and I can even see where this ban is coming from as a result- If homosexuality is wrong then having priests who acknowledge it as a part of who they are should therefore be wrong too. However, for as long as their have been priests, there have been homosexual ones. I'm not seeing why this should even be an issue. As long as you are a good preacher, have a true calling, and obey the vows you have taken, I don't see why the world should be denied the benefits that could come from your work. Not to mention with the lack of people entering into Holy Orders (both men and women) this is not the time to start kicking out people who believe they have the calling if they're willing to do what is required of them.
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#7
Posted: 9/22/05 at 2:27am
"As long as you are a good preacher, have a true calling, and obey the vows you have taken, I don't see why the world should be denied the benefits that could come from your work."
Ah, but if that's all there was to it, WOMEN could become priests too.
Wanting life but never knowing how
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#8
Posted: 9/22/05 at 7:17amMy question is this: Is there gonna be some kind of test to prove which men are gay and which are not? Lord knows, hundreds of thousands have been masquerading as straight for years - how are they gonna monitor this? And if the Catholic church would simply drop the requirement for celibecy, there would be a lot less cases of molestation, if you ask me.
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#9
Posted: 9/22/05 at 7:20amYes, Jon. The bar is called KNEEL, and it has private booths in the back so you can confess.
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/20/04
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#10
Posted: 9/22/05 at 9:20am
I am suddenly reminded of this line from the cinematic masterpiece FORD FAIRLANE, strring the legendary Andrew Dice Clay:
"Neil and Bob... are those your names or is that what you DO?"
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/03
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#11
Posted: 9/22/05 at 10:50am
Who will be left to say the mass and hear confession? While appearing to be a flip remark, this is an all-too-serious question.
This is one of those things that has not been thought all the way through. A wrong turn was made at the beginning of the rationale--that barring gay men from seminaries will increase the number of straight men who enter the priesthood. Allowing priests to marry and raise children will increase the number of seminarians.
Next to go will be current priests who are gay. Wait and see.
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#12
Posted: 9/22/05 at 11:42amA friend of mine is a former priest. He claims that at least 70% of the priests he knows are gay. The Catholic church will be decimated.
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#13
Posted: 9/22/05 at 11:47amSo there will be no more Catholic priests?
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#14
Posted: 9/22/05 at 11:51am
Lessons well learned as a Nazi Youth, Pope Benny.
Good job!
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#15
Posted: 9/22/05 at 11:58am
"The Catholic church will be decimated."
I don't think the Church itself will be decimated; the "Church" is you and me. The clergy ranks will be decimated - and that's an opportunity for the laity to take over. And THAT'S a good thing. The hierachy has screwed up this entity six ways to Sunday. The Church in the rural midwest is frequently ministered to by lay leadership because of an absence of area priests. In these parishes the "Church" is thriving.
That said, I have 5 close friends who are Jesuit priests. Four of the five are gay (though celibate). I feel great pain for them today as I read this report. It is time to rescue our spiritual heritage from the hands of an ignorant group of reactionaries.
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/03
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#16
Posted: 9/22/05 at 11:59am
Gay priests could end up saying the mass in secret not unlike the Latin mass is said today.
Or there could be a schism and a new branch of Catholicism could flower. It could/would be called something along the lines of the American Catholic Church. This schism would not happen strictly because of a witch hunt toward gay priests, but has been brewing for a while over women priests, birth control, gay people including marriage rights, divorce, celibacy and other social issues. Look at the Episcopal Church.
There would be a limited number of houses of worship, but is religion about faith or about land?
The witch hunt is a waste of time, money and effort.
Then there are the sexually active straight priests, but that is a whole other topic.
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#17
Posted: 9/22/05 at 12:08pm
"Although work on the document began years ago under Pope John Paul II, who died in April, its release will be a defining act in the young papacy of Benedict, a conservative who said last spring that there was a need to 'purify' the church after the deeply damaging sex scandals of the last several years."
The use of the word "purify" absolutely terrifies me.
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#18
Posted: 9/22/05 at 12:17pm
I sense another Schism happening in the church. Happened before, can happen again!
There are too many good Gay Catholic Priests out there. There are too many good Catholic Families which are going to be hurt by this.
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#19
Posted: 9/22/05 at 12:18pm
This should come as no surprise, since the Church defines homosexuality as "inherently disordered" that it, a mental illness. This is what the institutional Church teaches and believes, its what it tells students in their catechisms, and so why would any gay man want to be a priest? Why would he support this institutionalized homophobia, which being a priest and working for the Church, does?
BTW--I think Dolly is pretty close to correct--friends of mine who are ex-priests confirm that 70% number.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#20
Posted: 9/22/05 at 12:19pm
"The use of the word "purify" absolutely terrifies me."
"No one expected the Spanish Inquisition. . ."
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#21
Posted: 9/22/05 at 12:52pm
There IS a way to be a canonically correct noncelibate, married priest in the Catholic Church.
All you have to do is start in the Episcopal Church. :P
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#22
Posted: 9/22/05 at 1:01pm
I sadly left the Catholic Church a long time ago for many reasons. Having a priests that are not gay will not stop the sexual abuse of children. To me the Church and Rome haven't done anything to end that travesty.
If a man (or a woman) has that calling why should they be denied?
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#23
Posted: 9/22/05 at 1:03pm
Taryn - You're absolutely right! I know two men in that state who are great assests to the church. (and so are their wives!)
Updated On: 9/22/05 at 01:03 PM
re: New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests#24
Posted: 9/22/05 at 1:13pm
"He claims that at least 70% of the priests he knows are gay."
Is that 70% in the New York area, in America, or all around the world? I somehow doubt the number would be that high in countries that are predominantly Roman Catholic. If 90% of the population is Catholic, becoming a priest is much more respected than it is here. So the number of men that willing enter the church and remain celibate would far outweigh those that become priests since they are already required to remain celibate under church law because of their sexuality.
But the Catholic church has a long history of selectively enforcing laws of celibacy; Cesare Borgia (Machiavelli's Prince) was the son of Pope Alexander VI and Martin Luther was a monk that married a nun.
Wanting life but never knowing how
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