#52
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:21pm
Oy...where to start?
I read the Times piece when it came out and was intrigued...if a bit sceptical about all the details. But whatever.
Here's the thing. This isn't a boy working a corner. This is someone who, during a time when one does experiment with one's sexuality, found an outlet for that on the internet. A nameless, faceless place. This isn't the guy in the van holding out a lollipop. It's something far more insidious...grown men are able to pretend they are teen girls (not like that happens here, right?) to get to know these boys. And a 13-year-old could easily justify stripping or even masturbating in front of a cam cause, in the end, they're alone in their room. It feels safe. It doesn't feel like prostitution. And the more one does that (and the more money one makes), it can lead to a crossing of the line very easily.
We can sit here and say, 'He should have known better' and we'd be right...he should have. But I cannot, in good conscience, say, 'He deserved it,' or even 'He's culpable.' I just can't. He was thirteen.
I read the Times piece when it came out and was intrigued...if a bit sceptical about all the details. But whatever.
Here's the thing. This isn't a boy working a corner. This is someone who, during a time when one does experiment with one's sexuality, found an outlet for that on the internet. A nameless, faceless place. This isn't the guy in the van holding out a lollipop. It's something far more insidious...grown men are able to pretend they are teen girls (not like that happens here, right?) to get to know these boys. And a 13-year-old could easily justify stripping or even masturbating in front of a cam cause, in the end, they're alone in their room. It feels safe. It doesn't feel like prostitution. And the more one does that (and the more money one makes), it can lead to a crossing of the line very easily.
We can sit here and say, 'He should have known better' and we'd be right...he should have. But I cannot, in good conscience, say, 'He deserved it,' or even 'He's culpable.' I just can't. He was thirteen.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#53
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:35pm
"Likewise...it's your opinion I find distasteful."
Well then perhaps you could find more tasteful ways of expressing a difference of opinion than being rude.
Once again, don't forget that I never said I had totally made up my mind. I think I bent over backwards in trying to make it clear that I was voicing the red flags which I detected, and that I couldn't be sure, and that I hope I was wrong. Yet you still were quite rude, and that's my opinion.
Anyway, have a good day!
Well then perhaps you could find more tasteful ways of expressing a difference of opinion than being rude.
Once again, don't forget that I never said I had totally made up my mind. I think I bent over backwards in trying to make it clear that I was voicing the red flags which I detected, and that I couldn't be sure, and that I hope I was wrong. Yet you still were quite rude, and that's my opinion.
Anyway, have a good day!
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#54
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:36pm
Robbie-he was 13 then. Don't you think that somewhere along the way, over the years, he could have a change of mind about what he was doing?
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#55
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:38pm
Yeah, I find people who are abused and brainwashed and then strung out on drugs just snap to it one morning when they're old enough and think "Gosh, I'm glad I'm past THAT little episode of my life".
Nothing precious, plain to see, don't make a fuss over me. Not loud, not soft, but somewhere inbetween. Say sorry, just let it be the word you mean.
#56
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:40pm
I was asking Robbie.
My lord, you're hateful.
My lord, you're hateful.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#57
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:41pm
Jane..
It's similar to women who are in an abusive relationship and people say..."well, she could just leave."
It's not that easy. This kid had a slow descent into this. He probably got to a point where he felt like he couldn't leave.
It's similar to women who are in an abusive relationship and people say..."well, she could just leave."
It's not that easy. This kid had a slow descent into this. He probably got to a point where he felt like he couldn't leave.
#58
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:45pm
Erik-you may very well be right about this particular boy. I very well may be wrong. We're just expressing thoughts about it. At least that's what I was doing. Then this turned ugly.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#61
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:51pm
I was trying to illustrate how simplistically you were viewing this whole thing, Jane2.
Nothing precious, plain to see, don't make a fuss over me. Not loud, not soft, but somewhere inbetween. Say sorry, just let it be the word you mean.
#62
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:52pm
But wasn't he like 16 or 17 when he finally decided to stop?? I mean...we're talking major mistakes and major steps at reversing those mistakes during the absolute worst years for something like that to happen. I mean...if he was 30 now, then yeah...I'd say he coulda woken up sooner. But I'm actually pretty impressed that he was able to help himself out in the relatively short time he did.
If, indeed, the details are true.
If, indeed, the details are true.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#63
Posted: 2/16/06 at 1:55pm
Did you think that maybe, just maybe you could be wrong about this one particular boy? I at least conceded that I may be wrong about him, but I had questions. You and Erik are positive that you are right and I am wrong. I am positive that there are scores of young men in that situation who indeed were total victims and I feel for them, and the battered people who couldn't help getting into their situations. I don't know how many more times I can say that I may be wrong about him. You can't even cut me any slack for that.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#64
Posted: 2/16/06 at 2:01pm
The simple answer to your question is no. I do not believe a thirteen year old boy who had this happen to him could be anything other than a victim.
#65
Posted: 2/16/06 at 2:52pm
A victim of what?! Did he put himself naked on the internet? No one kiddnapped him and forced his clothes off. He made a DECISION to take his clothes off in front of a web camera. I think that a large part of the responsibility falls on him. If he was as bright and mature as "the O" made him up to be he wouldn't have done it in the first place. Millions of teens masterbate but he went the extra mile and videotaped it and put it on the internet.
The blame also lies with his mother who clearly was not involved at ALL with this child and was irresponsible enough to send him to a "computer convention" with a friend alone.
I also would like to verify that the father is in jail (did they mention this or did I miss it?)
The blame also lies with his mother who clearly was not involved at ALL with this child and was irresponsible enough to send him to a "computer convention" with a friend alone.
I also would like to verify that the father is in jail (did they mention this or did I miss it?)
"I don't wanna see that!" -Aunt Sassy (as played by Valerie Cherish) on Room & Bored
#66
Posted: 2/16/06 at 2:58pm
"No one kiddnapped him and forced his clothes off. He made a DECISION to take his clothes off in front of a web camera."
Clearly you did not watch the show or read anything about the case or read any of the other posts here.
This boy did not just wake up one day and start masturbating on his web cam. Over a period of time he was manipulated by several adult pedophiles to do so. They started by simply chatting with him and eventually convinced him to take his shirt off for $50.00. It went downhill from there. Remember..ADULT pedophiles are notorious for being able to manipulate CHILDREN.
He's a victim of horrible sexual abuse.
Clearly you did not watch the show or read anything about the case or read any of the other posts here.
This boy did not just wake up one day and start masturbating on his web cam. Over a period of time he was manipulated by several adult pedophiles to do so. They started by simply chatting with him and eventually convinced him to take his shirt off for $50.00. It went downhill from there. Remember..ADULT pedophiles are notorious for being able to manipulate CHILDREN.
He's a victim of horrible sexual abuse.
#67
Posted: 2/16/06 at 3:00pm
I feel like I have to back away from this thread. Honestly...I didn't see Opray...but I read the Times article which went into incredible detail. Those who are saying no one forced him should remember that most acts of child molestation are that of coersion (sp??) not force.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#68
Posted: 2/16/06 at 3:04pm
Exactly robbie...the overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse cases are not a result of physical force.
Updated On: 2/16/06 at 03:04 PM
#69
Posted: 2/17/06 at 8:14pm
I'm late to this thread because I just watched the Oprah episode. Here's the question that's been running through my mind as I've read everything that's been posted here thus far - If this was a female child we were talking about, would we be saying this she was responsible and should have known better? If adult men were exploiting a female child I think there'd be a lot more universal outrage on this thread and a lot less fingering point at the child. I realize this is all hypothetical and we can't 100% know how the discussion would have gone if the child was of the opposite sex, but it does seem to me that there's a perception that when a male is sexually victimized he must have been complicit in some way.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#71
Posted: 2/17/06 at 8:33pm
He is totaly right that parents should monitor their kids like crazy on theinternet, but I don't think he REALLY means it.
And.....SCENE!
#72
Posted: 2/17/06 at 8:35pm
What do you think he really means, then?
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
#73
Posted: 2/17/06 at 8:36pm
I hope his father is arrested.
The smallest stream is a valent river. It will drown me if it can.
#74
Posted: 2/17/06 at 8:37pm
Ok just for the record, I haven't seen this episode so I really don't know what happened, but my brother is 13 and boys that age are not very weakminded and naive. I think my brother could very well know more about sex than I do. 13 year olds act and think they're a lot older than the are. Without knowing the full story, I'd assume the boy knew exactly what he was getting himself into. Or was at least aware of it.
Am I cut out to spend my time this way?
#75
Posted: 2/17/06 at 8:49pm
It's not about being weak minded and naive. It's not about how much he did or didn't know about sex. It's about blaming a child whose exploitation began at the age of 13, which is rather repugnant. The argument against this child throughout the thread has been that he either should have known better or he was asking for it, and when that argument is applied to girls outrage breaks out on all sides.
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
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