Orson Scott Card is a raging homophobe.- Page 2

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 1:57pm

"Also, calling someone a queen isn't quite the same"

If you want to justify a hate crime, that's up to you. One of the things Baldwin tweeted was "I'm gonna put my foot up your f**king ass, George Stark, but I’m sure you’d dig it too much"

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 2:00pm

I've never considered name-calling a hate crime. Clearly you take a much harder line on what you consider hate crimes, so good for you for being so progressive, I guess. That is, of course, assuming you actually care about this and aren't just clumsily trying to make a point you don't even believe in.

Posted: 7/9/13 at 2:11pm

It's astounding how stupid conservatives are. If you are offended by Alec Baldwin, cut up your credit card. Turn off his podcast. You are absolutely free to cut all ties to him. Why would you rather whine and piss and gripe? Or maybe like Chick-Fil-A it is flat out discriminatory to NOT patronize him?

Updated On: 7/9/13 at 02:11 PM

[tazber]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 2:45pm

It's astounding how stupid Goth is. He is a conservative idiot's idiot.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 2:56pm

I don't know all of the details behind the Card story, but I have to agree with the issue regarding Baldwin. There is a total double standard going on and I'm not sure why he gets away with it. As a gay man, I was absolutely offended by his comments. Just as I was by Chick-Fil-A.

if that makes me sensitive or something, that's fine. I don't think anyone could ever justify Baldwin's remarks to me and he should not get a pass. Whether it's a tweet mocking our sexuality, or a donation to an organization persecuting us, it's still discrimination. Plain and simple.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 3:01pm

Get a pass how, though? I guess people could do like JoeKv suggested and try to get him to lose sponsorship deals, but part of the difference is that even though he made inexcusable remarks, he's not actively trying to deny gay people their rights. In fact, his deeds show that he supports the opposite. So yeah, he said a sh*tty thing and anyone who wants to be offended or boycott him should feel free, but I've yet to see how that's a parallel to Orson Scott Card.

It's like people trying to make the Chik-Fil-A thing about free speech. Dan Cathy is welcome to hold an ugly bigoted thoughts he wants, but when you turn around and use your money to actually support organizations that exist solely to screw with the lives of people who have done you no harm, then it becomes a problem.


Updated On: 7/9/13 at 03:01 PM

[WOSQ]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 3:11pm

The issue here is not Alec Baldwin.

Nor is it Dan Cathy and his Chik-Fil-A (or Chick Filet; can't this SOB even spell?)

The issue before us is this Card person whose work I don't know and now don't think I really need to know. In trying to make himself into a victim, he is proving that he is merely dumb. Clever perhaps, but untimately dumb.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 3:44pm

True, true, and even more true. You're right. Lost sight of the real issue here.

And PRS, I get what you're saying. Also, from a practical standpoint, it has been very difficult trying to "boycott" Baldwin. Boycotting one singular corporation is easier than a person who has his hands in many different cookie jars (production companies, global sponsorships, various media partnerships, etc.).

Ah, well. It is what it is.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 4:20pm

Couple weeks ago Goth could not understand why Alec calling someone who was talking trash and lying about his wife a Queen vs. Paula Dean using the N word. Seriously. He could not wrap his ignorant mind around why calling someone a queen was worse than using the N word.

The gay community is not making as big a fuss over this because they know Alec's track record.Alec is and has been a very good friend to the gay community.Only ones stirring the pot are the anti gay bigots. Ironic how all these anti gay conservatives are the ones who 'pretend' to be offended, as if they care about gay people at all. Goth is one of these types of people and could care less about any gay person on this forum. Him even bringing up Alec Baldwin shows how desperate he is and how much fun he has stirring the pot.

http://observer.com/2010/10/alec-baldwin-for-gay-marriage-wants-to-know-why-everybody-assumes-hes-straight-video/

http://polhudson.lohudblogs.com/2010/10/20/alec-baldwin-campaigns-for-gay-marriage/

As for Orson Scott Card, he is doing damage control. Nothing more.

[tazber]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 4:25pm

His tone is petulant and combative.

If this is damage control the studio needs to muzzle their dog fast.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 4:46pm

"The gay community is not making as big a fuss over this because they know Alec's track record.Alec is and has been a very good friend to the gay community.Only ones stirring the pot are the anti gay bigots. Ironic how all these anti gay conservatives are the ones who 'pretend' to be offended, as if they care about gay people at al"

I always feel uneasy when someone tries to speak for the the entire "gay community." Are you saying that I must clearly be an anti gay bigot because I am genuinely offended by Baldwin's wording and subsequent petulance about the entire thing, even though I am a gay man?

Apologies if that particular remark was for Goth, but you threw out a terrible generalization there. And I don't know that I would consider expressing my personal feelings about it as a big fuss or stirring the pot.

The complacent attitude from our community about what one of our friends or supporters does (ex. Alec Baldwin) could alarm me most. You're trying to excuse his behavior and let it slide because he believes we should be able to marry. And that, in my personal opinion, is unacceptable. No one is free from accountability - especially when using derogatory language.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 5:39pm

I'm also a gay man and was not at all offended. If he really was 'anti gay', don't you think he could have said something far worse? He left a voice mail for his daughter calling her far worse than what he called this guy. Anyone who has read or seen Alec Baldwin in interviews know he adores and worships the ground his daughter walks on.

I'll admit,the guy has a temper. He takes the bait every time the media and photographers want a story or a great photograph.That's what happened here.

I didn't know calling a gay person a queen was the same as calling them the F word.Is it only when straight people call us that? Can they say jokingly or do they have to be angry? Can I call up a gay friend and say,'Hey, whats up you dirty little queen?'Is that going over the line? Just asking.

If you were offended by Alec Baldwin,that's fine. You are entitled to feel that way and if you feel he must answer to you for it then fine. He has apologized. I just find it very difficult to believe that gays hold Alec Baldwin in a nasty light now because of this and things will never be the same. He got angry and called out a gay reporter who said something he knew was not true about Alec's wife. I'm sure the guy did it wanting to get a reaction out of Baldwin, which he got.

Posted: 7/9/13 at 5:52pm

Liza you must be a troll right? You want to boycott, but gosh it's too hard. But you sure can snap at Romantic when he generalizes about "the gay community." You just want to start sh1t.

I don't really understand yours and Goth's perspective. You don't like him, it's fairly easy to withhold your support. Taz doesn't like Card, he's withholding his support of his new big-budget movie. There's no "punishment" going on- just a couple consumers deciding what they want to do with their dollars.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 6:20pm

I'm not a troll at all. I get emotional and overreact, JoeKv. I will be the first one to admit that.

Romantico, you're right. Baldwin has apologized and it's up to each individual person to make the choice on accepting it and moving on or not. Others should not be chastised for being able to do it so quickly. You're right.

For the record, I don't think Baldwin is 'anti gay.' The basic principle of double standards just makes my skin crawl, regardless of the political party or circumstances surrounding it. It's very possible I am reading too much into it. Apologies for thread jacking, Taz.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 7/9/13 at 6:49pm

I think the notion of double standards applies only when comparing apples to apples. People don't compare to corporations, and single comments don't compare to dedicated bigotry.

The only double standard I see here is Goth crying for Baldwin's head when he's been--to my knowledge, at least--silent in the face of other antigay remarks. Maybe I've missed them, but it's difficult not to draw the conclusion that he's merely trying to score a point against a well known liberal.

Posted: 7/9/13 at 7:12pm

I brought up Chick-Fil-A because Goth commented negatively on those who would punish the company for it's beliefs. Apparently only Conservatives are allowed to boycott.

[tazber]

Posted: 7/10/13 at 6:51am

Really, Card could have stopped there. Instead, he went on to wonder “whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute.” His concern, ostensibly, is that someone might be petty enough not to see his movie simply because he spent years lobbying for laws that treated certain people as less than human. The fallacy he employs here — that calling out hate-speech is intolerance on par with curtailing the human rights of others — is a favorite fallback of cowards and bullies, and a way of evading responsibility for the impact of their words and actions.

Or maybe Card fundamentally misunderstands what “tolerance” means. Tolerance doesn’t mean forking over 10 bucks to see his movie. It doesn’t mean smiling graciously while he calls same-sex marriage itself “an act of intolerance” and equates homosexuality to pedophilia. And it certainly doesn’t mean that he gets to decide when an issue that has never affected him in any substantial way is moot because his flood of bigoted screeds have begun to overshadow his work in the public eye.
Link

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/10/13 at 7:27am

I've decided not to compare anybody or anything.

Both Alec Baldwin and Orson Scott Card are assholes for different reasons.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/10/13 at 10:39am

David Gerrold sums it up just perfect in my opinion:

https://www.facebook.com/david.gerrold/posts/10200886752543440

Of course, NOM had to weigh in. Boo FU#*ING HOO!!!

Updated On: 7/10/13 at 10:39 AM

[VeraCharles3]

Posted: 7/11/13 at 3:51am

Eric

At Swim Two Boys is one of my favourite novels. You have good taste.

The theatre adaptation is excellent too, it toured here in the UK several years ago and again last year, I think. Beautiful show.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 2:44pm

Puh-leeze.

After twenty years of despicably virulent homophobia … no. This is just another detestable characterization of LGBT people — that we are intolerant.

Intolerant? Of people who want to lock us up, put us in concentration camps, deny us our civil rights? Intolerant? Are you f*cking kidding me?

You want me to be tolerant, Scott? First be one of those people who understands. Or to put it bluntly — get your f*cking foot off my neck, then we’ll talk tolerance.

See, Scott — I don’t dislike you. I honestly don’t. I think you’re a very interesting author and you’ve turned out some works I admire. But you’ve made PR Mistake Number One. You’ve sided with hate-mongers. You’ve targeted a minority and you’ve characterized yourself as the righteous warrior. That gives you a short-term gain and a long-term loss. Look up Father Coughlin and Anita Bryant and Kirk Cameron.

Now you’ve made PR Mistake Number Two — instead of honestly and sincerely apologizing for the hurt you have caused others, you have doubled down. You have played the martyr card, arguing that you are the victim.

What this demonstrates is that you have no idea of what the issue really is. It’s about the 1138 rights, privileges, benefits, and obligations attendant to the civil contract of marriage. It’s about social security benefits and inheritance and child custody and joint taxation and deathbed decisions and hospital visitation and adoption and community property and all the other things that you and your wife take for granted. It’s about equality in the eyes of the law.

This is the goal that women set out to achieve when they first demanded the right to vote. This is the goal that Dr. Martin Luther King set out to achieve for African-Americans and other minorities when he started the Montgomery bus boycott. This is the goal that Harvey Milk set out to achieve when he opposed CA’s Prop 6 and when he ran for the San Francisco Board of Supervisors.

Our nation was founded on the idea that “we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men (people) are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights — and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

Your public statements, Orson Scott Card, put you on the wrong side of that declaration. Until you recognize that your public utterances have been at the service of bigotry and prejudice, there can be no redemption for you in the eyes of the LGBT community. Or anyone else, for that matter.
Star Trek and Sci-Fi Writer David Gerrold Slams Orson Scott Card Over “Tolerance” Beg

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 2:48pm

^^^ THAT'S THE GUY WHO WROTE THE TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES!! I hope Iflit's daughter sees this.

And Jesus, Lord, he invented the Sleestaks.

Updated On: 7/12/13 at 02:48 PM

[tazber]

Posted: 7/12/13 at 3:29pm

Omg, Sleestaks! Those guys creeped me out when I was a kid.

[romantico]

Posted: 8/15/13 at 4:20pm

Orson Scott Card Outdoes Himself With Insane, Racist Rant

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/orson-scott-card-racist-obama_n_3762891.html

[tazber]

Posted: 8/15/13 at 4:52pm

This is awesome. He is imploding.