Oslo Bomb Blast- Page 3

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/23/11 at 10:45pm

Well, in defense of those who jumped to the Muslim conclusion, a Muslim extremist group quickly took credit for the explosion. It was false, but that seems to be the way of it.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 7/23/11 at 10:55pm

JG2 - Fair enough. And, it appears that at 8PM EST Rubin also updated her blog.

And, since you are much closer to the situation, please let me know if there is anything being set up for the victims that one can either donate to or sign/submit to let Norway know how much people do care.

I was searching online, but did not find anything.






Updated On: 7/23/11 at 10:55 PM

[Q]

Posted: 7/23/11 at 10:56pm

I think there's a difference between suspicion and conclusion. There is arguably reason to suspect, especially (as JG2 points out) when snippets emerge initially pointing in that direction.

But I think there are those who predetermine that supposition to the point of conclusion, and any point of fact becomes moot.

[Salene]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 5:18am

Double post Updated On: 7/24/11 at 05:18 AM

[Salene]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 5:20am

You may have noticed that now that ties to "Muslim Extremist Terrorism" has been discounted, the guy is being referred to as a "mad man." Not as a terrorist.

The Norwegian media certainly refer to his actions as terrorism.

please let me know if there is anything being set up for the victims that one can either donate to or sign/submit to let Norway know how much people do care.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=244185822272540
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/lenke.php
http://www.vg.no/protokoll/?pid=965
(The newspaper whose headquarters were damaged in the bombing)
http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/23/nyheter/utoya/oslo/kondolanse/innenriks/17424489/
http://www.aftenposten.no/hilsen/article4181222.ece
(click on "Her sender du din hilsen")
http://www20.nrk.no/meldinger/webmelding.aspx?prosjektid=1623&type=les
("Send inn nytt spørsmål")

***

Death toll now at 93. 6 new arrests have been made.




Updated On: 7/24/11 at 05:20 AM

[Q]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:53am

Thanks for the links, Salene. I believe the arrestees you refer to have now been released.

Today's NY Times has this article:
"Norway Attacks Put Spotlight on Rise of Right-Wing Sentiment in Europe"

It might be focussed on the situation in Europe, but a lot of it sounds eerily familiar.
Link to article.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 12:39pm

Thank you Salene (and thank you for the Google add-on translator!).

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 1:37pm

There is a group here on the rise that scares the $hit out of me. Sverigedemokraterna. They have STRONG Nazi ties and are absolutely white supremacists. No one seems to support them, but SOMEONE is voting for them. They won seats in Parliament for the first time this year.

One of my teachers opined on it pretty well and it applied to my experience in the US, too. She said when the economy is bad and there aren't enough jobs available, people (especially young, white men) get frustrated need to find something to blame. Anything that has changed or progressed from a time they see as "the good ole days" gets blamed.

"I can't find a job because of Affirmative Action."
"I can't find a job because of all these damn immigrants."
"I can't get a leg up because everyone else is getting handouts."
"I can't afford ________ because my taxes are too high because they need to pay for __________."
"The world is going to $hit because now it's legal to _________."

I have never felt more comfortable than since I moved here. People have been nothing but supportive of our relationship. (Except for the yahoo that married us, but that's a different story.) My super conservative, Pentecostal mother-in-law apologized to my wife the other day for not being more supportive when we got married. People are visibly embarrassed when they assume I have a husband. When there were 4 other couples, all straight, that wanted to rent the little house we found, I was certain the elderly couple who owned it and lived next door would never choose us. They did. It's been unbelievable.

That said, in my little community that I love, 7% of the people voted for Sverigedemokraterna. It's like an infection. You don't know where it is, but you know it's spreading.

They have found more bodies in the rubble in Oslo.

[Q]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 1:49pm

JG2 - I also posted that NY Times article on Facebook (mentioning the importance of open discussion,) and this was the first response I got (which reminded me of what your teacher said):

"I agree, but I'm also not sure how productive discussion is at this point in our history as a species. People become violent (nutjobs aside) when their interests are threatened. Global economic insecurity, driven by simple but apparently un...resolvable issues like overpopulation and resource scarcity, leads us to a place where fear and violence become common. Economic hardship led us directly into the last world war, and times are more dire than they have been since 1932.We all agree that tolerance and peaceful discourse are the hallmarks of civility, but civility is a hard sell to people who have retreated to their more primal values."

[siny]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 9:30pm

My FB friend posted this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu6ok5ykyuQ&feature=email&email=comment_reply_received

and it made me incredibly sad because I realized that what happened in Norway can easily happen here. Here is an outright lie and propaganda and it went from 50,000+ views to 90,000+ views in just 2 days and it seems that most people who see it believe it, judging by the comments. Why do people so easily believe everything they see on the Internet, no matter how ridiculous ?

[Q]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:14pm

What in HELL is that man blathering on about?!?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:35pm

papa. who was the lefty? And all I was trashing in my post was fundamentalist terrorists. I think fundamentalism and terrorism are the problem. I never once said nothing about him being right wing.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 8:13am

Here's a great article about how Norway is dealing with the aftermath.
HuffPo

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 2:02pm

i was talking about james lee, al gore's personal assassin.

but i think anders behring breivik would take seruious issue with you lumping him in with fundamentalists of which he was most assuredly not.

from his own manifesto:

"it is therefore essential to understand the difference between a “christian fundamentalist theocracy” (everything we do not want) and a secular european society based on our christian cultural heritage (what we do want)."

emphasis mine.

and there is his description of his own group, the "knights templar":

"kt is a 'cultural christian' (christian identity) military order and not a 'religious christian' (christian fundamentalist) organization. logic and reason will always take precedence over biblical texts."

and this screen cap from a video he made which specifically denounces nazism.



the more you know!

Updated On: 7/25/11 at 02:02 PM

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 2:34pm

Huh. That's interesting. They were reporting his beliefs as similar to the skinheads here. Admittedly, I have been mostly reading the news in English and opinion blogs. How can someone who "opposes all hate ideologies" justify what he did? You can't kill 90+ people in the name of acceptance and freedom.

He sounds nuts to me.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 2:35pm

Funny, I don't recall James Lee killing anyone - the only person killed was James Lee - the police killed him in the standoff, but all of his hostages were safe.


EDIT - and JG2, in a small bit of good news, they have revised down the number killed at the camp to 68.
Updated On: 7/25/11 at 02:35 PM

[Q]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 2:38pm

"You can't kill 90+ people in the name of acceptance and freedom"

People rationalize a lot more killing than that in the name of war.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 2:47pm

Writing about Breivik in the Daily Beast, Peter Beinart says that "terrorism usually stems from the intersection between militant ideology and mentally vulnerable people."

His point is that a Breivik could happen here in the US, but the more interesting point to me is that if you equate the ideology with the "mentally vulnerable people" who kill in the name of that ideology, then you have no choice but to hate ALL who believe in that ideology. Which just makes you another member of the People Who Hate.

The more difficult thing is to separate ALL ideologies from the murderous actions "mentally vulnerable people" commit in the name of those ideologies. That would mean that we would have to all agree that "Muslims who kill in the name of Islam do NOT represent true Islam" and "Timothy McVeigh and Anders Breivik do NOT represent" Christians or Europeans or white people or anyone really.

In the end, the only group that Breivik, McVeigh and the 9/11 bombers belong to is People Who Murder.

[Salene]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 2:49pm

The numbers have been adjusted:
Oslo: 8
Utøya: 68

One person from my hometown is missing.

Turns out I actually know who he is. Was.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 2:56pm

Salene, I am so very sorry for your loss.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 3:00pm

Thank you for the edjumication, papa. Next you can start on those Greek lessons you've promised me for years.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 3:03pm

i thought we agreed that those were a trade for the asian lessons?

and ywiw, james was killed before he could detonate the explosive device he carried with him. 4 more were found in his home.

Updated On: 7/25/11 at 03:03 PM

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 3:21pm

That lower number is something positive, at least. I wonder how they came up with the higher numbers?

When he entered his not guilty plea, he claimed he was saving Europe from a Muslim invasion. I read things like that all the time here on Swedish news in English forums. Most of the immigrants are refugees and most of them are Muslim. The opposition argues that the majority of the refugees care nothing about integrating into Swedish society. I have seen evidence of that, but don't really see it as a positive or negative. I just see it as a people who have been in really $hitty circumstances who want to hold on to their culture. I mean, I make biscuits, gravy and sweet tea. I get it. (lame joke) Refugees also get money for going to school. So, the same classes I take, they get paid to sit in on. Some people really buckle down and get as much from it as they can. Others do absolutely nothing but sit there, making sure the teacher signs their attendance papers. That frustrates me because it slows class down, but what can you do? No matter what it is, someone is going to take advantage of it. Someone is always going to work the system.

Those that would take it to an extreme, argue that the Muslim population is slowly intending to take over. Since they are provided housing, the population tends to end up in the same area. It's more obvious in the bigger cities. I guess I could see how that could scare people, especially those with short fuses or at least give enough evidence to support extreme ideas. I mean, I have been scared being the only American around when crazy $hit goes down around the world, but I am a big chicken.

I guess my point is that as horrific as this is, it's not unexpected. The racism is getting more obvious and the temperature seems to be rising, metaphorically. I figured this sort of thing would happen sooner or later, but I thought it would be here, down South near Mälmö. I didn't realize it was as bad in Norway.


In the end, the only group that Breivik, McVeigh and the 9/11 bombers belong to is People Who Murder.

Very good point.

Updated On: 7/25/11 at 03:21 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 3:56pm

JG2, I would bet it was a transcription error - 68 because 86, but that is just guess.

And papa, really?

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 4:02pm

I read that due to the mass chaos when they arrived, some people may have been counted twice.