#26
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:34pm
Craig stated that there is no name calling.
Posting someone's personal information is morally and ethically wrong — Page 2
#27
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:35pm
Where exactly did any namecalling occur?
"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. "
--Sueleen Gay
#28
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:35pm
Mr. Chanticleer, it appears that you are unable to actually form and articulate an opinion of your own regarding the situation with Michelle Malkin and her actions and defense of publishing people's personal information.
That's what this thread is about, Mr. Chanticleer, and since I am the person who started this thread, it is certainly within the bounds of reason that I might like to remind those who are engaging in this discussion that that is what the topic is.
I am sorry you are unable to have an opinion about this issue that you are willing to articulate, in your own words. If I'm feeling uncharitable, I might say that that's because you are unable to find a posting by a writer with whom you agree that you can cut and paste into the thread.
You certainly must be able to take in information, synthesize it in your own brain, and make a statement about the topic of a discussion you're joining. Mustn't you?
That's what this thread is about, Mr. Chanticleer, and since I am the person who started this thread, it is certainly within the bounds of reason that I might like to remind those who are engaging in this discussion that that is what the topic is.
I am sorry you are unable to have an opinion about this issue that you are willing to articulate, in your own words. If I'm feeling uncharitable, I might say that that's because you are unable to find a posting by a writer with whom you agree that you can cut and paste into the thread.
You certainly must be able to take in information, synthesize it in your own brain, and make a statement about the topic of a discussion you're joining. Mustn't you?
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#29
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:36pm
Well, if you see no name calling, then don't cry "abuse!" 
#30
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:38pm
I think Chanti may be referring to the "drowning man" analogy. I didn't see anything else that would qualify as name calling.
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Updated On: 9/10/06 at 03:38 PM
#31
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:43pm
The name calling centered around the mis-use of the term plagiarist.
In addition, I am trying to research the Michelle Malkin situation, BUT it would in no way parallel to a BWW posting board.
My very good friend, Namo, might have different information about Michelle's site having a posting board where many members exchange information, and if so, please establish this parallel so that I know my research has any meaning at all to the BWW posting board. Until then it seems like a child's game.
Otherwise, I would rather not do the research as it has nothing at all to do with my efforts at BWW.
In addition, I am trying to research the Michelle Malkin situation, BUT it would in no way parallel to a BWW posting board.
My very good friend, Namo, might have different information about Michelle's site having a posting board where many members exchange information, and if so, please establish this parallel so that I know my research has any meaning at all to the BWW posting board. Until then it seems like a child's game.
Otherwise, I would rather not do the research as it has nothing at all to do with my efforts at BWW.
#32
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:46pm
"The name calling centered around the mis-use of the term plagiarist."
FTR, misuse is not hyphenated.
You cut and pasted and then posted without crediting a source, that is plagiarism.
If a student were to cut and paste from a blog into their term paper, with their name at the top, it would be plagiarism and would receive a failing grade.
The fact that you, as an educator, do not understand plagiarism is frightening.
FTR, misuse is not hyphenated.
You cut and pasted and then posted without crediting a source, that is plagiarism.
If a student were to cut and paste from a blog into their term paper, with their name at the top, it would be plagiarism and would receive a failing grade.
The fact that you, as an educator, do not understand plagiarism is frightening.
"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. "
--Sueleen Gay
#33
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:50pm
Colleen dear, you made my point better than I could have made it.
Students are taught all over that standards for a research paper and posting on a internet chatting board have DIFFERENT standards.
The faux standards which you and your friends try to enforce opn this board are laughable. Even funnier are the strenuous lengths you will go to protect your territory.
And you are dnagerously close to flaunting the rules yourself. In fact, you already employed the banned practice of name calling. Craig said it's a "no no."
Students are taught all over that standards for a research paper and posting on a internet chatting board have DIFFERENT standards.
The faux standards which you and your friends try to enforce opn this board are laughable. Even funnier are the strenuous lengths you will go to protect your territory.
And you are dnagerously close to flaunting the rules yourself. In fact, you already employed the banned practice of name calling. Craig said it's a "no no."
#34
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:51pm
The drowning man description was a simile. And one that appears to have been especially apt.
In case people are interested, after repeatedly publishing the students' contact information, here is what some of Michelle Malkin's fans had to say to them, as per their website [please note that there is a lot of obscenity, which I assume will disappear once it goes through the BWW filter]:
From: Wayne
Subject: shame on you
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:30:26 -0400
You will pay for your seditious activities. It is only a matter of
time...We are retired military snipers & we are watching you...
---------------------------------------------------
From: Hermy Flenagin
Subject: Military
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:24:54 -0700 (PDT)
Girls (and other assorted ****dicks),
My sincere hope is that a couple hundred of the local patriots take a
day off work for your next anarchist event, and come down to your
little ****hole with some axe handles and bust your ****ing heads.
Short of that, I certainly hope the Feds stop sending money to your
dicklicking junior college.
Hermy
---------------------------------------------------
From: Peter Peanut
Subject: I hope...
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT)
...one a fine young American very, very soon puts his shiny gun barrel
up to your left temple and pulls the trigger. Now THAT will make
America a much, much better place to live for the rest of us, you
utterly disgusting piece of ****...
-----------------------------------------
From: "Tom Ault"
Subject: outrage!
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:19:52 -0400
You intolerant left wing socialist ****ing cock-suckers. We're coming
to get you and when we do we'll hurt you..REAL BAD!
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Christopher Boylan
Subject: Go **** yourself
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:50:35 -0400
s
F*CKing pansy douchebag, you're lucky one of those recruiters didn't
put his foot up your silly little ass. Get cancer, you traitorous ****
breath cocksucker.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: primus1
Subject: F**CK YOU WANKERS!!! SUPPORT WAR!! F**K IRAQ
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:20:39 +0200
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Victor M. Sanchez, Jr."
Subject: Useful Idiots
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:15:04 -0500
You 3 are a bunch of useful idiots. Instead of marching around with
your silly Peacenik slogans you should either pick up a weapon and
defend this country from Islamofascists or just Shut The F*** Up. Or
just get back to class...idealistic, wet-behind the ears ingrates.
----------------------------------------------
I'm a first amendment absolutist, of course, a position also supported by the American Civil Liberties Union. Free speech is vital in a healthy democracy. It's interesting that some of Ms. Malkin's fans literally want to kill them for speaking freely against the US waging war on Iraq. Apparently, the irony escapes them.
Michelle Malkin is obviously not responsible for what other people did with the information she published. And argues that it's "their fault" that it was published in the first place.
I find this line of argument terribly fascinating.
Edited to redact the cuss words used by Michell Malkin's fans that were not cut out by the BWW filter.
In case people are interested, after repeatedly publishing the students' contact information, here is what some of Michelle Malkin's fans had to say to them, as per their website [please note that there is a lot of obscenity, which I assume will disappear once it goes through the BWW filter]:
From: Wayne
Subject: shame on you
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:30:26 -0400
You will pay for your seditious activities. It is only a matter of
time...We are retired military snipers & we are watching you...
---------------------------------------------------
From: Hermy Flenagin
Subject: Military
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:24:54 -0700 (PDT)
Girls (and other assorted ****dicks),
My sincere hope is that a couple hundred of the local patriots take a
day off work for your next anarchist event, and come down to your
little ****hole with some axe handles and bust your ****ing heads.
Short of that, I certainly hope the Feds stop sending money to your
dicklicking junior college.
Hermy
---------------------------------------------------
From: Peter Peanut
Subject: I hope...
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT)
...one a fine young American very, very soon puts his shiny gun barrel
up to your left temple and pulls the trigger. Now THAT will make
America a much, much better place to live for the rest of us, you
utterly disgusting piece of ****...
-----------------------------------------
From: "Tom Ault"
Subject: outrage!
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:19:52 -0400
You intolerant left wing socialist ****ing cock-suckers. We're coming
to get you and when we do we'll hurt you..REAL BAD!
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Christopher Boylan
Subject: Go **** yourself
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:50:35 -0400
s
F*CKing pansy douchebag, you're lucky one of those recruiters didn't
put his foot up your silly little ass. Get cancer, you traitorous ****
breath cocksucker.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: primus1
Subject: F**CK YOU WANKERS!!! SUPPORT WAR!! F**K IRAQ
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:20:39 +0200
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Victor M. Sanchez, Jr."
Subject: Useful Idiots
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:15:04 -0500
You 3 are a bunch of useful idiots. Instead of marching around with
your silly Peacenik slogans you should either pick up a weapon and
defend this country from Islamofascists or just Shut The F*** Up. Or
just get back to class...idealistic, wet-behind the ears ingrates.
----------------------------------------------
I'm a first amendment absolutist, of course, a position also supported by the American Civil Liberties Union. Free speech is vital in a healthy democracy. It's interesting that some of Ms. Malkin's fans literally want to kill them for speaking freely against the US waging war on Iraq. Apparently, the irony escapes them.
Michelle Malkin is obviously not responsible for what other people did with the information she published. And argues that it's "their fault" that it was published in the first place.
I find this line of argument terribly fascinating.
Edited to redact the cuss words used by Michell Malkin's fans that were not cut out by the BWW filter.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
Updated On: 9/10/06 at 03:51 PM
#35
Posted: 9/10/06 at 3:54pm
All written interaction, including email and the informal atmosphere of a message boards exist under writing conventions. Plagiarism is one of the conventions that also must be avoided, even in an informal atmosphere. The blogs which you stole from would have legal grounds against you, which does qualify your action as plagiarism.
Additionally, there is a difference between personal insult and addressing an action.
Accusation of plagiarism addresses an action committed and is not a personal address, therefore it does not fall under the "name-calling" umbrella.
Additionally, there is a difference between personal insult and addressing an action.
Accusation of plagiarism addresses an action committed and is not a personal address, therefore it does not fall under the "name-calling" umbrella.
"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. "
--Sueleen Gay
Updated On: 9/10/06 at 03:54 PM
#36
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:01pm
Views aside, I think Malkin is a terrible writer and very childish in her arguments. It's not surprising that her fans write those comments as she has about the same level of maturity in her editorials.
And one has to marvel at her doing what she did and at those comments. They speak of the speaker--and my oh my what they say.
And one has to marvel at her doing what she did and at those comments. They speak of the speaker--and my oh my what they say.
#37
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:02pm
We'll see it Craig agrees with you. You generally agree with him, so the chances are pretty good.
So much for standards and balance.
You mean decisions are made based on one's political thoughts...
Surely that could not happen at BWW.
Remember whatever is good enough for Michelle Malkin is good enough for all BWW users.
So much for standards and balance.
You mean decisions are made based on one's political thoughts...
Surely that could not happen at BWW.
Remember whatever is good enough for Michelle Malkin is good enough for all BWW users.
#38
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:07pm
I'll bet Michelle is getting very concerned.
Have you seen hot air?
Have you seen hot air?
#39
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:07pm
Mr. Chanticleer, it seems as if you aren't willing to state your opinion on the matter of Michelle Malkin publishing the contact information of people she vehemently disagreed with and then republishing it and reminding the students that the information was freely available thanks to a link on their website, which they provided.
What is there to research? Do you or do you not have an opinion of your own? You're not going to court, you're stating an opinion. What is your strenuous objection to doing that?
It's irrelevant to this discussion whether or not Michelle Malkin has a message board. The question of Ms. Malkin's tactics and defense of them do not have anything to do with whether or not she has a message board.
You seem to be suggesting that you are unable and unwilling to form an opinion about the issue of publishing people's personal information until you do further "research" which you then say you don't want to do.
It's curious that you say that doing the "research" it apparently requires for you to form an opinon is something you don't want to do because "it has nothing at all to do with my efforts at BWW." You have "efforts at BWW?" What are they? And how is it that those "efforts" and your having an opinion about Michelle Malkin publishing people's private contact information and defending that action is are mutually exclusive?
[edited for typo not content]
What is there to research? Do you or do you not have an opinion of your own? You're not going to court, you're stating an opinion. What is your strenuous objection to doing that?
It's irrelevant to this discussion whether or not Michelle Malkin has a message board. The question of Ms. Malkin's tactics and defense of them do not have anything to do with whether or not she has a message board.
You seem to be suggesting that you are unable and unwilling to form an opinion about the issue of publishing people's personal information until you do further "research" which you then say you don't want to do.
It's curious that you say that doing the "research" it apparently requires for you to form an opinon is something you don't want to do because "it has nothing at all to do with my efforts at BWW." You have "efforts at BWW?" What are they? And how is it that those "efforts" and your having an opinion about Michelle Malkin publishing people's private contact information and defending that action is are mutually exclusive?
[edited for typo not content]
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
Updated On: 9/10/06 at 04:07 PM
#40
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:22pm
What's the point of you asking for my view of Michelle's handling of this situation?
There is no parallel between your actions and Michelle Malkin's actions.
There is no parallel between your actions and Michelle Malkin's actions.
#41
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:23pm
Generally, don't all press releases have some sort of contact information, should the press have to follow up? I'm sure usually there is a spokesperson or press agency, but with a smaller outfit such as SAW, which I'm guessing is a groundroots thing, they'll use actual members or leaders as contact points. That information is generally known not to be distributed to the general public. It's like a celebritity or politician press rep's phone number being listed in the times or being recited on the air. If that is how she got the information, then I do think it is not proper journalism etiquette to disseminate that to the general public.
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
#42
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:26pm
I believe the argument she made, taboo, was that the press information was posted on the SAW website and available for the public anyway should they go to that website.
Similar to posting someone's own information on their blog....and then handing the link out for public consumption. And the information from that blog being posted on the board they were soliciting.
But, no, there are no parallels there. None at all.
Similar to posting someone's own information on their blog....and then handing the link out for public consumption. And the information from that blog being posted on the board they were soliciting.
But, no, there are no parallels there. None at all.
"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. "
--Sueleen Gay
#43
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:30pm
"What's the point of you asking for my view of Michelle's handling of this situation?"
Because you have previously indicated that you consider yourself to be a fan of Michelle Malkin's and one could reasonably assume that you joined this thread, which is a discussion of this issue, because you wanted to share your opinion of the issue.
If you don't want to do that, what is the point of joining the thread?
Because you have previously indicated that you consider yourself to be a fan of Michelle Malkin's and one could reasonably assume that you joined this thread, which is a discussion of this issue, because you wanted to share your opinion of the issue.
If you don't want to do that, what is the point of joining the thread?
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#44
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:45pm
"The next day, Malkin copied the cell phone numbers and e-mail addresses of three student activists at the demonstration from a news release intended for journalists and pasted them in her online column titled "Seditious Santa Cruz vs. America."
or
"When students called Malkin to request she remove the student information, Malkin reposted the names and numbers several more times. She defended the decision, blaming SAW for posting a link to the news release on its Web site."
Guess I read it confused when trying to get through this thread. But when I look at both the explanations of how the information got releasted, iether way, I don't think it was appropriate. I guess my question is, what was the point of putting their personal contact information for everyone to see? She was knowingly inciting an action of the readers who follow views, and on a sensitive subject as this, of course these kids are going to get a stream of strong reactions towards them.
Please keep in mind, though, I don't approve of the students' response. But I can understand that, with the ball rolling, how they had to respond strongly in return.
Also keep in mind I've never heard of Malkin or SAW before reading this.
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
or
"When students called Malkin to request she remove the student information, Malkin reposted the names and numbers several more times. She defended the decision, blaming SAW for posting a link to the news release on its Web site."
Guess I read it confused when trying to get through this thread. But when I look at both the explanations of how the information got releasted, iether way, I don't think it was appropriate. I guess my question is, what was the point of putting their personal contact information for everyone to see? She was knowingly inciting an action of the readers who follow views, and on a sensitive subject as this, of course these kids are going to get a stream of strong reactions towards them.
Please keep in mind, though, I don't approve of the students' response. But I can understand that, with the ball rolling, how they had to respond strongly in return.
Also keep in mind I've never heard of Malkin or SAW before reading this.
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
#45
Posted: 9/10/06 at 4:57pm
Where's Brdlwyr when you need him?
From a moral perspective I definitely agree that it was a gross abuse of her power. I think she knew full well what types of harrassment would be unleashed on those students. Maybe there could be legal charges brought up on aiding in harrassment of individuals in an effort to limit or silence their freedom of speech. Are there any legal charges for enciting harrassment of individuals?
There are tons of extenuating circumstances including if this is an official student organization or not. If that is the case the university would get entangled in the legal action also.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/15/MNG6MHOD1N1.DTL
It's a March 2006 article, but the Pentagon put this group on their "credible threat" list, based on their peace activities. (Granted I don't agree with some of their tactics. Slashing tires isn't going to convince me that you truly want peace, but I understand that you can get worked up and make mistakes.) Still I don't see how in the world they got put on the "credible threat" list. The only thing I can think is to try to bully them into stop publicly disagreeing with the current military ideaology. Intimidation of the very citizens you are sworn to protect is quite the contradiction.
From a moral perspective I definitely agree that it was a gross abuse of her power. I think she knew full well what types of harrassment would be unleashed on those students. Maybe there could be legal charges brought up on aiding in harrassment of individuals in an effort to limit or silence their freedom of speech. Are there any legal charges for enciting harrassment of individuals?
There are tons of extenuating circumstances including if this is an official student organization or not. If that is the case the university would get entangled in the legal action also.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/15/MNG6MHOD1N1.DTL
It's a March 2006 article, but the Pentagon put this group on their "credible threat" list, based on their peace activities. (Granted I don't agree with some of their tactics. Slashing tires isn't going to convince me that you truly want peace, but I understand that you can get worked up and make mistakes.) Still I don't see how in the world they got put on the "credible threat" list. The only thing I can think is to try to bully them into stop publicly disagreeing with the current military ideaology. Intimidation of the very citizens you are sworn to protect is quite the contradiction.
My avatar is a reminder to myself. I need lots of reminders...
#46
Posted: 9/10/06 at 5:07pm
That's why I was particularly interested in hearing what the guy who'd not only heard of Michelle Malkin but calls himself a fan and supporter had to say. In fact, just the other day Mr. Chanticleer gave Michelle Malkin credit for inventing his favorite word to use when name-calling, (even though it is a Bill O'Reilly word), and then appeared to think he was challenging me with "I bet you don't even know who she is!"
Mr. Chanticller has said lots of things in this thread but he never said anything about Michelle's actions and defense of them in publishing people's personal information, and then republishing it themselves while saying it was their fault.
Over two hours ago, Mr. Chanticleer wrote in this thread, "I am happy to engage this debate," and then after about an hour asked, "What's the point ...?" with lots of posts in between that while tangentially "engaging" never actually contained an opinion about Michelle Malkin or her tactics or defense.
I just find that interesting. Extremely interesting. I wonder if he has managed to form an opinion yet on the issue?
Mr. Chanticller has said lots of things in this thread but he never said anything about Michelle's actions and defense of them in publishing people's personal information, and then republishing it themselves while saying it was their fault.
Over two hours ago, Mr. Chanticleer wrote in this thread, "I am happy to engage this debate," and then after about an hour asked, "What's the point ...?" with lots of posts in between that while tangentially "engaging" never actually contained an opinion about Michelle Malkin or her tactics or defense.
I just find that interesting. Extremely interesting. I wonder if he has managed to form an opinion yet on the issue?
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
Updated On: 9/10/06 at 05:07 PM
#47
Posted: 9/10/06 at 6:36pm
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is this goadingism?
Wait your time, Namo, I will get back.
Wait your time, Namo, I will get back.
#48
Posted: 9/10/06 at 6:40pm
To be continued...
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
#49
Posted: 9/10/06 at 7:40pm
This is extremely curious. Mr. Chanticleer has to wait to post his opinion.
Why? Do you have to wait until you can find something to cut and paste?
Personally, I find when someone asks me my opinion, I don't have to research my opinion. It comes pretty naturally. Because it is my opinion. Is it the "your" part of "your opinion" that's causing the hold up, Mr. Chanticleer?
Is there some sort of conflict that you can't resolve?
Why? Do you have to wait until you can find something to cut and paste?
Personally, I find when someone asks me my opinion, I don't have to research my opinion. It comes pretty naturally. Because it is my opinion. Is it the "your" part of "your opinion" that's causing the hold up, Mr. Chanticleer?
Is there some sort of conflict that you can't resolve?
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#50
Posted: 9/10/06 at 7:43pm
I'm aware that you regularly post opinions without knowing the facts. Anyone who reads the board witnesses this behavior on a regular basis.
I await knowing all of the facts, and for that, I've gone straight to the horses mouth..
Michelle is working on something for this, and it should be good...
When I understand the full story, I will gladly give a view.
I await knowing all of the facts, and for that, I've gone straight to the horses mouth..
Michelle is working on something for this, and it should be good...
When I understand the full story, I will gladly give a view.
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