See a smoker? Call 911- Page 2

[jimnysf]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:23pm

I think we have to be very careful when it comes to supporting rights being taken away

Since when is it a right to smoke if it bothers others? I hope those who feel as you do are as passionate about their real Constitutional Rights eroding via the "Patriot Act" and the dictator in waiting Bush, as they are about the so called right to smoke.

Oh, and dancing is a crime in some places. Try dancing in a bar in San Francisco that does not have the proper permits and you will be escorted out the door if you don't stop. I've seen it happen.

Updated On: 10/23/06 at 11:23 PM

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:23pm

I have to say my biggest gripe with international traveling is smokers. I've been to airports where smoking is allowed and the smoke just billows out and makes my eyes water. I was once on this rainforest trek and these two Spanish tourists were smoking right there on this on the hike. The beautiful smell of the rainforest just ruined by that. They couldn't wait till we got out. I've been on flights when people were busted for smoking in the bathroom.

Oh and once I went to Macchu Picchu (in Peru), which is a sacred site! People smoking. I hate when I book a non-smoking hotel room and I get there and sure enough someone had smoke there. That nasty musty ashtray smell.

I dated a smoker once and no matter how hard he brushed I could always taste it on his breath. Now when I’m out and I see a cute guy, if he cuts for the door, I forget about it. Thankfully my new bo doesn’t to that stuff.



Updated On: 10/23/06 at 11:23 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:31pm

Elphaba, I was going to post something along those same lines. They claim it will be an "immediate response" but seriously, what cop is going to rush lights-on, sirens-blaring on a call to catch a guy smoking a cigarette? And what about REAL crimes? How are you going to explain to someone who was robbed that the cops couldn't get there in time because they were citing someone for smoking in public?

This is just excessive. I have asthma and a lung sensitivity and I'm still with Akiva. Car exhaust,heavy perfume, the smell of freshly cut grass all have an *immediate* impact on my health. You *might* get lung cancer after 30 years of second hand smoke in public places but I *will* have an asthma attack if you mow your grass and I have to walk by. If I can suck it up (no pun intended) and deal, so can you.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:33pm

"Now when I’m out and I see a cute guy, if he cuts for the door, I forget about it."

I would think the fact that you have a "bo" would be reason enough to "forget about it," not the smoking.

Updated On: 10/23/06 at 11:33 PM

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:36pm

Well I certainly didn't find him under a rock.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:38pm

Jimnysf: Just asx much a right as drivin a car is...thats all i'm saying. Also...there is another reason not to go back to San Fran! (I lived there breifly).

mejusthavingfun: The things you are talking about are just rude. Rudeness occurs with tonnes of other objects not just cigarettes. A cell phone going off on a gorgeous Rainforest hike, or on Machu Picchu (I am SOOO jealous by the way), is just as annoying and disruptful. You can't tell me that guys taht cake themselves in Axe, Tag, or even expensive colognes don't revolt you just as much as people who mildly smell like smoke. I agree with you that all the things you said are pretty annoying and rude...but I promise you there will be rude people no matter what and they will just keep finding brilliant ways of making our lives hell (Thank goodness the laser pointer phase hs died).

Akiva

[vbplayer]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:42pm

Wow, turn the focus of this thread on to something REALLY important and you may have a chance of starting something. All this blather for smoking? What a waste of words. Focus on something i-m-p-o-r-t-a-n-t for heavens sake. Why waste all this passion on cigarette smokers. Make a difference, make a POINT!! This world is way too f'ed up to worry about smoking. Get a grip.

[MLE]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:44pm

I agree about pollution from car exhaust, it's not good at all. There need to be cleaner and more fuel efficient automobiles. However, that one is up to the government, car companies really aren't going to work hard on those technologies with out the government stepping in.

I understand what you're trying to accomplish with the car/smoking argument, but it is unfounded. Cars are used for transportation; they are a vital part of our daily lives and economy. They have a purpose and with out them our society would be crippled.
Can one say the same thing about cigarettes? No, you cannot. Sure, they provide the government money in taxes and for some reason (though for the life of me, I can't figure it out) some people get enjoyment out of smoking them. But, if we took away cigarettes tomorrow, it would be no catastrophic blow to our country. There would be a lot of people in need of a nicotine fix, but that is nothing compared to the loss of automobiles. Smoking is a (disgusting) personal habit that unfortunately affects those around the smoker whether they smoke or not. How's that for a violation of rights?

Just today I was in my lecture class, we had a break about half way through and when everyone came back I found out that the two people to my right were smokers. They went out and only had time for one cigarette at the most, but they absolutely REAKED! I had to inhale that for the entire second half of my two and a half hour class. I was literally almost sick right there.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:44pm

LOL or even smokers that wear too much cologne.

No offense to you AXE wearers, but sometimes that stuff just kills me. Cologne is so tricky; we should have a thread on that. Some people just don't get it do they? I really love the subtleness of cologne. It's one thing that is tricky about dating at first. If you were an offending cologne you can lose big time. If you have something though that they dig... it's like a super power.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:46pm

vbplayer,

It's true...but really its not banning cigarettes specifically that we have been discussing all this time. We have touched on more important issues of personal freedoms and common courtesy that are behind it. Besides...I think everyone in this thread hs been respectful and intelligent in their responses, and i'd rather be part of a conversation like this than a far more banal and mean-spirited one (at least...right now I would).

Akiva

[jimnysf]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:55pm

If I can suck it up (no pun intended) and deal, so can you.

There you go again! OY!

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 10/23/06 at 11:55pm

MLE,

I think I have overdone my car argument, and I'm sort of trying to pull away from it. The main point I was trying to make was that i fin d it very interesting that peole get so passionate against smoking in plublic, but there are so many things just as unhealthy, annoying and rude that they don't seem to be as passionate about.

One last piont about though: You saying that it is up to the government to find fuel efficient cars is like saying it is up to government to find non-health threatening tabbaccos. The only people it is up to are the consumers. If people stop buying gas guzzlers, then they will stop being made and the car companies will look to alternate plans. Same with cigarettes...if enough people don't want to smoke them...they will fade away. (can you tell I am a Laissez Faire kind of guy).

And as for those two people sitting next to you...what if they had just come from the gym and didn't have time to shower...or still smelled like booze and their best friend's puke from the night before? or ate nasty tacos for lunch? banning cigarettes would only ban one source of smelly people.

Akiva

P.S....I used to be SUCH on offender on the Axe front a few years ago. What can I say...I really had nobody to teach me my wrong ways. Now my female friends let me know when I am drowning them in a cloud of musk.
Updated On: 10/23/06 at 11:55 PM

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:00am

I think the oil lobby controls what goes on with automobiles. One of the biggest disappointments of my adult life was waking up and realizing most Americans don't care about anything. I completely empathize with them, why should they care? It’s an easy nice life right?

[MLE]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:06am

Akiva,
Sure, public pressure has a big influence on car companies. If the public does move away from gas guzzlers, the production of cars will reflect that. Either they will produce more fuel efficient models or simply less of the SUV types. The latter seems more likely. However if the EPA puts on stricter regulations and legally compels them to make more fuel efficient cars that will light a fire under them much faster than buying trends could.

About those people, sure they could show up smelling badly and that would undoubtedly be unpleasant, too. However, actual cigarette smoke and the smell of it makes me feel sick. If I inhale enough of it I can get very ill.

[vbplayer]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:11am

Akiva. Cigarettes, vehicle emmissions, cologne. When does it stop? A large percentage of posters on these boards are quite young, and will have a huge impact down the road. And you will all find your voices in the years to come. I'm just proposing that right now, there are many more causes to focus on that don't relate to "ME, MY comfort level, MY personal freedoms...etc".

I hope I didn't come off as being banal or mean spirited, that was not my intent. There are so many ways to make a difference, and the passion on this thread would be better served focusing on more important issues. I do worry about the future of the next generation. We all should.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:21am

MLE: All I can say if I was that person sitting next to you and you nicely let me know that I was effecting your health if I sat beside you for too long, then I would gladly move.

vbplayer: I didn't think you were coming off rude at all. I am just confused as to why you don't see "personal freedoms" as a bigger issue. I mean...it can be argued that the U.S.A. invading other countries to change their government is a matter of personal freedoms. Does the Western World have the right to impose our own belief on other cultures and belief systems? What about if those culture begin to affect our own? I'd like to see you suggest some more impoertant topics though.

Akiva

[DG]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:23am

I see the issue of personal freedom being raised, and that's the one I'm interested in concerning this subject - but it's the individual rights of the business owner that I'm looking at. I have no issue with someone who doesn't want to be in a smokey establishment - I even smoke, and it's not something I'm fond of. But I think the demands of the consumers - that would be responded to by the business owners - would balance out the needs and desires of the populace.

If there are enough people to seek out and patronize a non-smoking establishment, then there will be more than enough willing to provide that environment - business follows the money. Conversely, if there are enough of those who would like the ability to smoke, there would be enough to provide that, as well.

As it stands, the choice of the individual business owner has been taken away, and another attempt to legislate lifestyle has been implemented.

Land of the free, indeed.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:23am

Well said, DG. Again...I can't stress enough the importance of consumer buying power. Money is the only thing that matters any more, so make it matter and use it towards products and services you support.

Akiva

Updated On: 10/24/06 at 12:23 AM

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:31am

I don't think this personal freedom is as significant as say... my right to marry or join the military. Let's get real here people, some kids are not even getting an education in this country and that is a right. We have so many other things being taken away and those are much more pressing issues. Remember "intelligent design."

The smoking ban is not intended to harm anyone. I look at it like the lead paint ban. It is supposed to make healthier people. It is like night and day in NYC since the ban went into effect. The clubs are so clean and it's just a nice place. I don't own a business and I don't know how oppressive it is, but smoking is hopefully on the way out and hopefully it was a good choice. It is just not cool anymore... though I'm with you on letting the government dictate things they deem appropriate. Look at the wonders they've done with Iraq.

[DG]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:43am

"The clubs are so clean and it's just a nice place."

While meanwhile, the sidewalk areas in front of the non-smoking establishments are now full of those who go outside to smoke - in public areas.

I agree that there are many important and pressing issues facing this country. I would just argue that the further intrusion of a centralized government into private matters of choice is not so insignifigant as to not be commented on.
Updated On: 10/24/06 at 12:43 AM

[MLE]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:45am

Akiva, I would have gladly changed places already, but it is a huge lecture class and the professor insists on taking attendance so we were put into assigned seats so all he has to do is look for a gap to mark a person absent (it's not foolproof, apparently it's good enough for him).

This situation is pretty unique and I only have that class once a week so I can live. Yes, I get nauseous, but I've found bringing some water to drink and some gum helps minimize the effect the smell has on me. I was more or less trying to illustrate that in addition to long term effects, cigarette smoke can have immediate health affects as well. But, that can fall under the "fact of life" category like earlier posts about cologne or smog.

I guess what I mean is this:
Sure the smell of smoke may be annoying or nauseating, but it's something I'll have to deal with if cigarettes are still legal in this country. If a person wants to smoke in their own home or a private area, that's fine. All that means is A) I wouldn't be able to date that person or be in close physical contact and B) I wouldn't spend much time at that person's house. However, I also feel I should have a right to go out to a public place without having to inhale smoke (and then become very sick, much more than just nauseated) and then even come home reeking of it. That takes a lot of washing to get out.

[DG]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 12:52am

"I also feel I should have a right to go out to a public place"

I absolutely agree with this. I just don't think a private business qualifies as a public place - not like a government building that is paid for out of communal funds. The right of the individual is to not patronize an establishment that they don't want to.

To put it in a different perspective - mejust, you say you see this as pertaining to the overall public health. At the moment, a majority in this country do not condone homosexuality (although, the number of that majority is decreasing daily.) And for a certain segment of the population, the feeling is that it is not only unhealthy, but detrimental to society as a whole.

Following your way of thinking - that the government has the right to determine private business practice based on perceived overall public benefit - then those people should have legal recourse to deny the existence of gay bars, clubs or other businesses.

[vbplayer]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 1:03am

DG, I had so much to say.....but you beat me to it. And expressed it more eloquently.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 1:09am

Oh man...the people in this thread are being so much more civilized than in the Islam thread. Which is funny since there are a few of the same people. I am not complaining at all, rather applauding.Hah, I would probably have some stuff to say there, as an Israeli, but I am a little too afraid to even scan it in depth adn catch up to what is going on.

Akiva

[DG]

Posted: 10/24/06 at 1:20am

Akiva - as passionate as some can be about the smoking subject, it's nothing compared to something that touches on religious expression, nationalism, politics and foreign policy.