See a smoker? Call 911 — Page 3
#52
Posted: 10/24/06 at 1:33am
DG-interesting argument.
In the case of smoking "public health" is what the name implies, health of the public. In the case with homosexuality "health" really means morality. Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness. It is a question of "morality".
You cannot argue morality against legality.
What the majority of the public believes to be moral does not constitute legal legitimacy.
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you may have over simplified "public health". These are two different things. No one wants to ban cigarettes because they are "immoral". The truth is no one would really care if anyone smoked if the second-hand smoke did not contain so many known carcinogens. It's is not the fact that you're smoking, it's what's in the smoke that can harm others in very real physical ways. This is where the government should step in, to protect people from scientifically solid, proven harm.
The government has a responsibility to protect its citizens, but it does not have any responsibility or right to regulate so-called "moral" behavior.
Your argument is like saying if the government has the authority to regulate pollution by a company, it has the authority to make sure that these companies are only run by people who really love the environment.
One is protecting the public health and the other is mandating morality
In the case of smoking "public health" is what the name implies, health of the public. In the case with homosexuality "health" really means morality. Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness. It is a question of "morality".
You cannot argue morality against legality.
What the majority of the public believes to be moral does not constitute legal legitimacy.
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you may have over simplified "public health". These are two different things. No one wants to ban cigarettes because they are "immoral". The truth is no one would really care if anyone smoked if the second-hand smoke did not contain so many known carcinogens. It's is not the fact that you're smoking, it's what's in the smoke that can harm others in very real physical ways. This is where the government should step in, to protect people from scientifically solid, proven harm.
The government has a responsibility to protect its citizens, but it does not have any responsibility or right to regulate so-called "moral" behavior.
Your argument is like saying if the government has the authority to regulate pollution by a company, it has the authority to make sure that these companies are only run by people who really love the environment.
One is protecting the public health and the other is mandating morality
#53
Posted: 10/24/06 at 1:47am
MLE - the thing is, I DON'T agree with legislating morality. But our current environment seems to make it possible under certain situations - like gay marriage.
As to the public health issue - I agree that it's the government's right and duty to step in concerning the public welfare - which I would agree includes public spaces. I just do not agree that private businesses fall under that jurisdiction.
As to the public health issue - I agree that it's the government's right and duty to step in concerning the public welfare - which I would agree includes public spaces. I just do not agree that private businesses fall under that jurisdiction.
#54
Posted: 10/24/06 at 2:00am
DG- I didn't mean to imply that you, yourself agreed with legislating morality, I just meant that the argument you proposed contained such a scenario.
I understand what you mean about private businesses, however, if the smoking ban didn't apply to those places as well, where would a non smoker be able to go? Obviously not all businesses would let their patrons smoke up a storm, but what if the places a non smoker was able to go (and not get sick) was severely limited? It's gray area.
I guess I'll just leave it at that for now. This is about all my frazzled brain can take, I've been doing homework all night and I still have a lot of studying to go. Oh the glamorous college life.
I understand what you mean about private businesses, however, if the smoking ban didn't apply to those places as well, where would a non smoker be able to go? Obviously not all businesses would let their patrons smoke up a storm, but what if the places a non smoker was able to go (and not get sick) was severely limited? It's gray area.
I guess I'll just leave it at that for now. This is about all my frazzled brain can take, I've been doing homework all night and I still have a lot of studying to go. Oh the glamorous college life.
#55
Posted: 10/24/06 at 2:24am
MLE - that's kind of what I referred to earlier - I think the laws of supply and demand should be allowed to formulate the environment. If there are enough people who will only patronize non-smoking establishments, believe me they'll exist.
#56
Posted: 10/24/06 at 1:34pm
Forget smoking---ban BARS!
"NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!"
#57
Posted: 10/24/06 at 1:52pm
i agree with dg. too often in this country, rather than making something different that appeals to a specific audience, people try to warp existing products to fit their desires.
setting aside the health issue momentarily, it'd be like finding a nice chinese restaurant that you like and demanding that they carry pizza.
rather than create something new and giving it a chance to stand or fall on its own merits, people try to take what's there and change it to suit them.
setting aside the health issue momentarily, it'd be like finding a nice chinese restaurant that you like and demanding that they carry pizza.
rather than create something new and giving it a chance to stand or fall on its own merits, people try to take what's there and change it to suit them.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#58
Posted: 10/24/06 at 1:53pm
Man, I need a ciggy-butt!
"Carson has combined his passion for helping children with his love for one of Cincinnati's favorite past times - cornhole - to create a unique and exciting event perfect for a corporate outing, entertaining clients or family fun."
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
#59
Posted: 10/24/06 at 2:16pm
*voice-dials 911*
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#60
Posted: 10/24/06 at 2:38pm
setting aside the health issue momentarily, it'd be like finding a nice chinese restaurant that you like and demanding that they carry pizza.
The place I usually order from has an "American Dishes" section of the menu now. You can order chicken wings, fried chicken, french fries. Why would you call a Chinese restaurant if you wanted chicken wings and french fries?
This law is only in Omaha, right? What happens if you're right on the city limits? If your smoke wafts over the line, can you be fined?
The place I usually order from has an "American Dishes" section of the menu now. You can order chicken wings, fried chicken, french fries. Why would you call a Chinese restaurant if you wanted chicken wings and french fries?
This law is only in Omaha, right? What happens if you're right on the city limits? If your smoke wafts over the line, can you be fined?
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#61
Posted: 10/24/06 at 2:44pm
"If your smoke wafts over the line, can you be fined?"
No, Skittles, they just shoot you.
No, Skittles, they just shoot you.
#62
Posted: 10/24/06 at 3:18pm
yep, they have the border staffed with crack shots carrying baretta sidearms in .45 and a mix of h&k's in 10mm and barrett m-82a1's.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
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