Song of the South Revisited- Page 2
Song of the South Revisited
Borstalboy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/9/04
#25re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 2:45pm
Parents should watch this movie with their children on a double bill with MANDINGO.
"That's how it was for the slaves, honey. Can you imagine how awful it would be to be James Mason's ottoman?"
#26re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 2:55pm
LOL!
Don't forget the cartoon before the feature:
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v273010BPTcGHPS
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#27re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 3:23pm
"Sub-textually the film supports a world of happy slaves, satisfied in in their living conditions and perfectly content in their forced servitude."
No, the film shows one plantation where cartoon birds fly around and a cartoon fox and rabbit try to outwit each other. Nobody ever said this was reality. Do you get mad at Willy Wonka for holding the Oom-Pah Loom-Pahs hostage? These movies are fantasy, not meant to represent any reality.
#28re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 3:29pm
Do I get a mad at the Oom-Pah Loom-Pahs in Willy Wonka? No.
I believe they worked at Wonka's on a volunteer bases.. at least that is what I remember from the films and the books.
Yes.. this movie is a fantasy.. a fantasy as much about singing birds as about the the fantasy life of happy slavery.
There are films that depict women getting happily raped. No one is saying that is reality either.. but my understanding of reality affects my perception of those images, just as my understanding of the horrors of slavery and the history white supremacy affects my perception of Song of the South.
#29re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 5:08pm
There are films that depict women getting happily raped.
Huh??? I don't think I've seen those. Were they also Disney films?
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#30re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 5:15pm
"There are films that depict women getting happily raped. uh??? I don't think I've seen those. Were they also Disney films?"
Locked away in the back of the Disney vaults is the rarely viewed "Spin & Marty Stalk Annette".
#31re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 6:10pm
Yes.. there are such films. Mainly in the genre of pornography. Which is genre created to fufill the "fantasies" of some men.
No sane person believes women enjoy being raped, so when a sane person sees something like that - even in the context of a man's fantasy .. it will probably disturb them.
I have a similar reaction to the depiction of happy slavery.
It bothers me, but it doesn't bother you. It is not too hard concept to grapple?
TheatreDiva90016
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
#32re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 6:19pm
“I don't think anyone ever took Disney films to be reality or even historically accurate.”
Pocahontas, anyone?
And, how did this turn into a thread about rape?
#33re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 6:21pm
It was me Diva... I clumsily tried to make a point.
I should have known anything having to do with sex with women would have gone over the heads of these guys.
TheatreDiva90016
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
#34re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 6:22pm
I love how we went from Disney, right into rape.
I used to work at Disneyland, and it's the same there around pay day.
#35re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 6:24pmIt's a small world after all!
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#36re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 8:13pm
“I don't think anyone ever took Disney films to be reality or even historically accurate.
Pocahontas, anyone?"
Those not on the Disney payroll think differently.
Link
#37re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 8:28pm
It just baffles me that this could be under such heavy criticism, meanwhile Splash Mountain is BASED on the movie, and just happens to be one of Disney World's most popular, long-lived attractions.
Honestly, make up your mind big-guys-upstairs.
P.s. My brother actually got it on DVD a few years ago.
#38re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 8:37pm
"Don't forget the cartoon before the feature."
Oh, BFB! If you'd only seen my reaction to that! It was similar to Regan's in "The Exorcist" when her head spins around.
Good GOD. I wish people could get a perspective on how far we've come. That was the mid-'40s too. During the war.
I think releasing "Song of the South" could help. I totally understand why you cringe a bit and can't really enjoy the film because of the depiction of slaves. It doesn't affect me quite as much. I look at it as typical "sugar coating" which I've seen before, whether it be "happy miners" or "happy peasants" in a musical, or "happy pirates." I don't take it as real, but I enjoy it for the entertainment value. And I love the story, and the way Uncle Remus takes the boy out of his troubled life, and through simple imagination, takes him to a better place. That's respectable in intent, even if the surroundings are questionable.
Yet, I don't fault anyone who stops at Square One, and can't get by the "happy slaves." I see it. And I get it.
But I would never ban it or prevent it from seeing the light of day.
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
TheatreDiva90016
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
#39re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 9:44pm
Yes, BFB,
Thanks for the link to that cartoon. While it was appalling to look at, it was also good for a laugh or two.
#40re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 9:49pm
Wow, that Warner Bros cartoon was amazing!! I think for me the worst part of it was the "Murder Inc." van where at the bottom it said Japs Free. But It was WWII and it was an American Cartoon, so at the time it was made, it wouldn't have been considered offensive as it might today.
People are too stuffy these days, and get too offended. I don't usually get offended by what I see, usually I brush it off or leave the theatre or film. I understand people getting horribly upset by some of the images on the screen, but give me a break, there are far worse things shown.
I always laugh on my Donald Duck cartoon discs when Leonard Maltin comes on to lecture me about the time period and how portrayals and smoking were big during the times they were made. We still should embrace these films/cartoons and not shove them under the carpet.
#41re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/29/08 at 11:19pmIt's interesting, a couple of years ago I was talking about this movie with some friends after a show. It turns out that both the parents of our stage manager were in "Song of the South." I asked her about it and she told me that she has a video of it and she didn't see what was so terrible. I haven't seen the whole movie, but now my interest is peaked. I think I shall have to find it to see what is so controversial.
#42re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/30/08 at 1:24am
I won't lie.. Coal Black gave me a couple good chuckles too!
One thing I do trust about Disney today.. is that IF they ever release it in US they will do extensive work to contextualize it and make an honest effort to present all points of view.
One of my major fears with any release of the film is that it will be easily seen by children. That might not seem like much of a serious fear..but here is a story to illustrate what might happen.
Years ago when I was a teen, I would babysit my cousin and read him Little Black Sambo. I'd put on quite a show for him and he really loved it.
One day in a doctor's office waiting room, the door opened and my 6 year old cousin went wild shouting at the top at his voice.. LOOK!!! LOOK!!! IT'S BLACK MAMBO!!! IT'S BLACK MAMBO...
It was actually the nurse. I was beyond mortified.
I could see the intense pain behind the woman's professional expression as she attended to us.
She handled the entire situation with the kind of dignity and aplomb that put me in my place without having to ever mention a word.
I came to realize that the book.. however delightful it was .. was not worth potentially creating a new generation of children enamored of a stereotype and possibly causing deep pain to those who have worked so hard to raise above it.
Needless to say, I stopped reading him the story.
#43re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/30/08 at 10:04am
I should have known anything having to do with sex with women would have gone over the heads of these guys.
Compassionate, yet sexist. Nice. You jump from slavery to rape without any explanation and expected us to follow your internal thread linking Disney to porn?
Yes.. there are such films. Mainly in the genre of pornography. Which is genre created to fufill the "fantasies" of some men.
No sane person believes women enjoy being raped, so when a sane person sees something like that - even in the context of a man's fantasy .. it will probably disturb them.
This makes the assumptions that 1) pornography exists for the same purpose as theatrical films, 2) only men have those sexual fantasies, and 3) all sexual fantasies of which you disapprove are only reenacted by those who are "insane". What about fantasies involving the rape of men? Or is it only the rape of women that offends you?
What about war films and prison films of the first half of the 20th century? The majority of them do not depict the sexual and physical violence that often occurs within the prison walls or the atrocities committed by soldiers during times of war. Should they all be shelved as well? And what about pirate movies? I don't remember any rape scenes in Captain Blood or Treasure Island, so perhaps all pirate films should be erased from time, too.
#44re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/30/08 at 11:56am
Oh dear...yes, as I wrote before... I clumsily tried to make a point.
My aim wasn't to link Disney to Porn. My aim was to say that my understanding of reality affects my perception of fantasy as depicted on film. So when I see the fantasy life of happy slavery.. in my mind.. it is a sharp unsettling clash against my understanding of the horrors of actual slavery.
Just as if I were to see a "fantasy" film depiction of women enjoying being raped. It would not line up with my understanding of how women really react to the act of being sexually violated.
That was my point.. which, I believe, others were capable of understanding.
"Should they all be shelved as well? And what about pirate movies? I don't remember any rape scenes in Captain Blood or Treasure Island, so perhaps all pirate films should be erased from time, too."
Well.. here I think YOU are trying to put words in my mouth. Kindly show me where I said anywhere on this thread that SOTH or any film should be shelved?
So far, I've only written about MY reaction to the film and fears I have should it be released. I've said nothing on whether it should or shouldn't be banned.
Oddly enough.. YOU are the one who seems obsessed with how I PERSONALLY respond to SOTH. I'd looked into that if I were you.
"Compassionate, yet sexist."
Yeah, probably. I'm not a saint. I have blind spots and inconstancies just as any other person. I try to improve... I stumble and fall.. but on the whole I think I move forward.
But thank you for noticing the compassionate part of my personality. I take that as great compliment.
#45re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/30/08 at 12:09pm
I do apologize, for you did not say Song of the South should be shelved, it just seemed as though the sensibilities were somehow inconsistent, which was my clumsily-made point.
I guess some of us can more easily separate the reality from fantasy by simply accepting the face value and context of the matieral.
And I did understand your point about rape, I just didn't understand how you went from Song of the South to films about women happily being raped and expected me to connect the dots that led to pornography and heterosexual male fantasies. You have to admit, it was sort of the express-train subject route.
And yes, I do believe you show a lot of compassion and sensitivity. Except for the gay sexist remark. So get back in the kitchen and cook some dinner, woman!
#46re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/30/08 at 12:11pm
I slave away all day in this hot kitchen and you come home smelling of beer and cigarettes after a night with the "boys".
I'm going back home to Mother!!!!
#47re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/30/08 at 12:26pmI hate to break this to you, but "Mother" is actually my step-uncle. You've just never seen him in the morning.
Borstalboy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/9/04
#48re: Song of the South Revisited
Posted: 4/30/08 at 12:29pm
Rape in film: Well, marital rape certainly puts a spring in Scarlett's step in GONE WITH THE WIND...."oh, what de-liiiight"
Also Susan George is the prototypical "she really wanted it" dumb broad in STRAW DOGS.
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