Student Loans - What's Your Story?

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 2:27am

Hello everyone,

Nearly one year ago I saw Michael Moore's documentary, SiCKO, at a movie theatre and was completely outraged, as I should have been. This documentary was made by a person who is very passionate about an issue he has concerning American policy. This film inspired me to tell my story about another American issue I have with our Educational system.

During this past year, I began to toy around with the idea of doing my own low-budget documentary and have decided to shoot for the stars and go for it. I have a camera that was donated to me for this project and I will be beginning production in September.

Later this summer, a website will be created where I will ask the general public what I am about to ask you. Please share with me your stories of dealing with financial aid assistance in the American educational system.

Here is my story, just the numbers:

I attend a private college where it cost $28,476 total to attend the school for the 2007-2008 academic year (this total includes, specifically, $20,544 for tuition, $270 in fees, $4,098 for a standard room and board, and $3,564 for a meal plan). This total does not include additional expenses, such as books or living expenses.

Of the $28,476 - my financial aid package provided me with $7,900 in assistance (this total includes $2,500 in a Scholarship of Recognition, $1,000 Incentive Grant, $1,900 North Carolina Tuition Grant, and $2,500 Theatre Scholarship).

This means that I had to take out loans for the amount of $20,576 just for the 2007-2008 academic year.

I will be graduating in December of this year, and after taking other calculations into account, my estimated combined total of student loans I will have to pay is $87,500 (I will have been a student at this college for 9 semesters).

When we filled out the FAFSA form for this year, our household income was roughly $112,000. If my household were to pay off my student loans with one year's worth of income, that would mean we would have $24,500 left to pay for other bills and living expenses for a family of four.

That's less than $17 per person per day.

That figure of $112,000 was based on the current situation of my parents' employment. My father has since lost his job and is on unemployment. Today he applied for a job at a grocery store. He is fifty years old.

These are just the facts in numbers with a little bit of background information. I know a lot of responses will be "well you CHOSE to go to a private college in the first place!" Yes, I did. And I will not yet go into detail on why I chose this college and why I stuck with it, assuming I knew the numbers.

I won't yet go into detail about how we have had tons of medical expenses. I won't go into detail about how I do not have a car which prohibits me from keeping a job, thus limiting the jobs I can apply for. I won't go into detail about how I don't even have my driver's license because that would force me to pay for insurance for a car I don't own. I won't go into detail about how my grandmother, who has Alzheimer's and dementia, has been living with my aunt for two years and my aunt can no longer take care of her and our family cannot afford to put her into an assisted living facility and we do not know what we are going to do. I won't go into detail about how our household bills are stressing us out to the point of desperation. I won't go into detail about how my sister will go off to college in less than two years and will have the same problems I am having, fincancially.

And I certainly don't even need to go into detail about how much money there is to be made in the profession of Theatre.

If your response to all this is "Welcome to the real world," then YOU BETCHA.

Please send me your stories and be sure to include contact information. You may PM me or reply to this thread.

Thank you for reading a very lengthy post.

Updated On: 5/20/08 at 02:27 AM

[Gothampc]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 9:56am

"Nearly one year ago I saw Michael Moore's documentary, SiCKO, at a movie theatre and was completely outraged, as I should have been."

No, actually you shouldn't have been. Michael Moore uses selective research in his documentaries. He doesn't start out to prove a point, he starts out with the outcome he wants and works backwards. My advice is to do proper research and keep an open mind. You don't need to force a story, if there is one there, it will present itself.

One of the questions you need to ask in your documentary is "Why do foreign students get financial aid?" and "Why do schools actively recruit foreign students over US students?". There is only so much financial aid that can be administered. Since some aid is based on income, how does a foreign student's income differ from yours?

Updated On: 5/20/08 at 09:56 AM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 10:14am

I won't go into detail about how I don't even have my driver's license because that would force me to pay for insurance for a car I don't own

Is that a North Carolina thing? I have a license and no car and I don't have to pay any insurance. I'm just curious.

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 10:20am

"If my household were to pay off my student loans with one year's worth of income, that would mean we would have $24,500 left to pay for other bills and living expenses for a family of four."

You do realize that you don't have to pay off the loans in just one year, don't you?

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 10:22am

It's hard to tell Moony, since we he didn't go into detail.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 10:23am

Also, what exactly is your issue with the American Education system? That it's expensive?

[CJR]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 10:31am

If you have a license, you don't just have to start paying car insurance. Now, if you're parents want to put you on THEIR insurance so you can drive their car, that's another story. But just to physically have your license, no, you don't need to be paying for car insurance for a car you don't have.

As for the debt.... well yeah, that blows. Not gonna lie. I only went to college for a portion of time when I was still living at home because it was so expensive. I went to a private, out of state Catholic college and tuition was sky high. My parents made too much money and I got no financial aid or anything like that as a result. When I finally went back, I was an independent student and financial aid covered all but $2,300 per year... and I'm currently pre-law. Sometimes it actually pays to wait.

All that aside, Im not really sure what the point of the initial post was. Just to bitch? Blog if you wanna bitch lol

Updated On: 5/20/08 at 10:31 AM

Posted: 5/20/08 at 10:35am

I duuno. To me, people complaining about student loans are like single moms complaining how expensive having a kid is. I'd never buy a $30K car, even if I had ALWAYS dreamed of having one, because I know I couldn't pay it back. Why did you choose a $30K college if you couldn't afford it? My family was broke when it came time to go to college, so I went to a school that offered me an all-but-free ride. Iw as accepted at a school I had always dreamed of attending, but when I saw I'd be looking at nearly $100K of debt after four years, I passed.

There are good public universities you could have attended for four years for less than than one year's debt. You say you have good reasons for not doing that. I didn't.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 10:49am

Exactly, Joe. Bad decision making, does not a bitch session make. Live with it, Capn.

I paid EVERY penny for my undergraduate and two masters degrees. My parents did not contribute anything. I went to a state school because I could afford it. I had to take a year between high school and college and work full time to pay for my first year. I never had a student loan and I was completely college debt free when each of the diploma's were handed to me. I worked jobs I couldn't stand because they paid good money. It can be done.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 10:54am

Are you going to get a job while you work on the documentary or just defer your loans?

[hollywearsprada]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 11:03am

It's slightly different here in England, so I'll try the best I can to explain it for those who don't know.

Basically, every single university can charge up to £3000 [$5900] a term. And most of them do. It's rare to find a university that charges less than this.

You can pay for those fees with a tuition loan. Which means at the end of an average 3 year course, you will owe £27,000. [$53,100]

Then there is you accomodation costs. To live where I am right now, which is a small room with my own bathroom but food not included, costs £1250 [$2500] a term. So 3 terms a year x 3 years = £11,250 [$22,500]. There is no loan for this so this has to come from your own money.

Now, there's also a Maintanence Loan you can apply for which is a minimum of £1150 [$2200] a term [it all depends on your family income, but if your family earns over £25,000 [$50,000] a year, you get the minimum amount] Most people, including myself, use this to pay for their accomodation.

That means that every term I start off £100 in debt. I have 2 jobs in order to be able to eat.

When I leave uni I will owe £38,250 [$75,300]. And this is regardless of whether you go to a good university, or a not so good university.

Basically, I hate the system. If you are rich, it's fine because your parents can afford to pay it all off. If you are poor, the tax payer pays for you to go to university. If you are like me, you get the raw deal of everything. You don't get any extra money or money off your tuition fees or anything.

And it really REALLY annoys me when people get on at students for complaining about student loans. Their usual reasoning is "well don't go then!" If we don't go to university, the next time you're sick, there isn't going to be a doctor at the hospital to make you better! There'd be no lawyers, no teachers, no dentists, nothing.

Not going to university is not an option for some people if they want to persue a certain career. Yet a lot of my friends [and me also] were uneasy about going because of the amount of money we're going to owe when we leave. How is this encouraging young people to get degrees??

Just my 2 cents. :)

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 12:33pm

Gothampc - Thanks for looking out, but I know. It's obvious (to me) that Moore forces a response and is selective. The mose obvious is "OK, what is he NOT telling us about the universal healthcare systems in the UK, France, and Canada? What problems do they have?" Won't go into all those details, but I mentioned the documentary because it was inspiring.

Blue - of course I realize I don't have just one year. I have a year grace period before I have to even begin to make payments. Then I will be making payments for 30 years!

Phyllis - I think it is an NC thing. The DMV told me that I cannot get my permit until I am insured, either my own or on my parents' insurance. ALL of my non-NC friends can't comprehend that.

My issues with the system deal with more than just financial aid. The documentary will focus on me and my situation and how I got to be in it and my options. It will include more, covering the entire system.

I believe that I should have a higher percentage in aid (grants) than I do in loans. It was like that 10-15 years ago. Now the average is 44% aid and 54% loans, I believe. I'm still doing research on numbers and making discoveries.

That RIDICULOUS FAFSA form is flawed. It looks only at income and not outgoing expenses. The way they decide on how much aid you receive is corrupt.

I am not eligible for work study. A friend of mine, WHOSE FAMILY HAS A *MUCH* HIGHER INCOME THAN MINE (they even own a lakehouse!! For his birthday last month, they bought him a brand NEW car!!!!!), HE was eligible for work study and I was not. He has no clue why. Neither was the school. All we know: I was told from the government that I was not and he was.

I feel like I have been setup for failure by our system. This documentary will follow me as I investigate the situations people are in, financially, once they have graduated (both positive and negative).

Posted: 5/20/08 at 12:36pm

Maybe you could do a documentary on how winners credit their own hard work and ingenuity and losers blame "the system"?

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 12:41pm

Iw as accepted at a school I had always dreamed of attending, but when I saw I'd be looking at nearly $100K of debt after four years, I passed.

Oops. Well, sh*t...

[CJR]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 12:46pm

JoeyKv, you took my answer. lol

Capn, why don't you quit your whining. For a family of 4 with a household income of $112,000 a year, no you should NOT be eligible for a whole ass load of financial aid. It doesn't matter to them what expenses go out, because as ADULTS, your parents should be living in accordance to their income and not living beyond their means. I realize that most Americans DO live beyond their means, but that makes little difference. That's their problem to fix, not the government's.

The kids who need financial aid are the ones whose families are struggling to get by, the kids who work two jobs AND go to school because they want desperately to go and be more. It's the kids who truly can't afford it who need and deserve the help. It's not the government's problem that either you or your parents can't manage your money properly. And you know what? Most of those kids who are busting their ASSES to go to school don't complain. And the ones who do? I don't fault them for it one bit.

And as for your little factoid about having approximately $25,000 for expenses/to live off of for the year if you paid off your year's tuition.... Well, I know families in the NY area (which is much more expensive to live in than NC -- FAFSA takes THAT into consideration too, as well as your household income) who are able to live off JUST that amount of money.

Again, quit your whining. You're doing nothing but coming off as a spoiled brat who wants a free college ride so mommy and daddy don't have to pay for it. And woe is me, it's all so bad, it's all so expensive. Grow a set, suck it up and move on. Welcome to adulthood. Deal with it.

By the way, I do realize it may not be your intention to come off this way, but it's how a lot of us are reading it.

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 12:48pm

I've got 14 G's out in student loans for beauty school....

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 12:50pm

"I am not eligible for work study. A friend of mine, WHOSE FAMILY HAS A *MUCH* HIGHER INCOME THAN MINE (they even own a lakehouse!! For his birthday last month, they bought him a brand NEW car!!!!!), HE was eligible for work study and I was not. He has no clue why. Neither was the school. All we know: I was told from the government that I was not and he was. "

My understanding of the financial aid distribution (what's left of it a after the Bush terms) is that it is according to income and assets. You're family is clearly very well off and when you attend a public institution (at least during Clinton) financial aid was adjusted to account for income and assets and cost.

I'm gonna have to go with the rest and put the blame back to you. The school is expensive and you picked it. I actually quit work study because I found I could make much more money working outside of school in less time. Not sure if you've stopped by McDonald's but if you need money I wouldn't turn my nose at part-time employment.

No offense, but it’s really hard to hear anyone complaining about the cost of education when your family income is so high.

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 12:58pm

"The documentary will focus on me and my situation and how I got to be in it and my options."

Well, that portion can begin and end with you choosing an expensive option when a state university system was available. This could be a very short film.

The last time I filled out a FAFSA application there was a section which documented expenses. I doubt that has been dropped since 2005. I found the application process and the resulting loan amount to be quite fair.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 1:04pm

I do have one tip. If you have any personal savings or even a checking account, clean it out. Put it a sibling's name or an aunt. If you report $0 you get more money. The same goes for your parents, but unfortunately with that income it's gonna be hard to prove they have nothing.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 1:26pm

I knew I would get all of these attacks, which is fine. I don't expect all of you to understand as I am purposefully not giving out details, other than numbers and a few circumstances.

CJR: "It doesn't matter to them what expenses go out, because as ADULTS, your parents should be living in accordance to their income and not living beyond their means."

I love how you assume that we are spending money on things we can't afford. My grandfather passed away this year and our family had to pay for a lot of his medical bills before he passed, then for his funeral. In addition, my father incurred a lot of medical bills this year. If it weren't for all these medical bills, we would be doing fine.

I don't pretend to be poor. $112,000 for a family of four IS a good income. But the government doesn't look at where that income is going when making decisions on giving aid.

BTW: Hillary Clinton's plan is to do just that. She wants to get rid of FAFSA and start a new program. She wants to lower the percetage of interest back down to single digits on loans.

Again, a lot of people here are making assumptions - and thank you for your acknowledgement that you think I am whining unfoundedly. I'm really just interested in other stories on student loans and dealing with your education financially. Positive or negative. Give me your numbers.

[Jilani]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 3:05pm

I do have one tip. If you have any personal savings or even a checking account, clean it out. Put it a sibling's name or an aunt. If you report $0 you get more money. The same goes for your parents, but unfortunately with that income it's gonna be hard to prove they have nothing.

I'm not sure if recommending that someone commit fraud is a great tip, but to each their own.

[CJR]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 3:34pm

I love how you assume that we are spending money on things we can't afford. My grandfather passed away this year and our family had to pay for a lot of his medical bills before he passed, then for his funeral. In addition, my father incurred a lot of medical bills this year. If it weren't for all these medical bills, we would be doing fine.

Sh!t happens. My dad DIED and left me in debt that I am still trying to clean up 5 years later. I'm not whining about how I'm so poor and unable to afford school as a result.

I don't pretend to be poor. $112,000 for a family of four IS a good income. But the government doesn't look at where that income is going when making decisions on giving aid.

If you KNOW that amount of money is a good income for a family of four (especially where you live, with the cost of living being cheaper than say, the NY metro area), then why are you whining and bitching and moaning about the fact that the government won't give you more money? YOU'RE NOT SOMEONE IN NEED OF THEIR HELP.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 3:37pm

CapnHook - Do you work? Get a parttime job and just stop complaining. Seriously do you understand how pathetic it is to hear a wealthy person complain about the price of a private school to study theatre? (No offense to 'arts majors' I'm one too)

I think if you made the documentary you would realize how good you actually have it. You have a choice to begin with. Many high school students lack the funds to even pay for SATS or application fees.

I'm a total liberal on this issue btw, but when I read your words I just can't believe it. I worked a fulltime job to go to a state school and then in the summer I had to work two fulltime jobs. I certainly don't think that should be the norm but if you are studying theatre you can certainly swing a McDonalds gig.
Updated On: 5/20/08 at 03:37 PM

[CJR]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 3:40pm

I think if you made the documentary you would realize how good you actually have it. You have a choice to begin with. Many high school student's lack the fund to even pay for SATS or application fees.

The exact point I couldn't articulate because I was too irritated from listening to Capn's incessant whining. Thank you, mejusthavingfun

Updated On: 5/20/08 at 03:40 PM

[CapnHook]

Posted: 5/20/08 at 4:11pm

Wow. I cannot believe the ignorance you guys have. How can you make these judgements without knowing all the facts? I've stated more than once how I am not going to go into details about my situation. I only presented pieces. PIECES. Leaving out MAJOR INFORMATION.

It's a given that I have it better than the thousands who cannot even afford to go to college in the first place. Did I really have to mention that?

Each year, thousands of students declare bunkruptcy soon-after undergraduate school and the numbers continue to climb. Interest rates on student loans continue to climb as well, as high as 30%. Private schools refer students to preferred loan companies and in return these companies give the schools bonuses.

This is not about "getting more money." It's about lowering costs, lowering interest rates, giving more work study opportunities, and making highger education more affordable. For everyone. Lower and middle class should have the same opportunities as upper class.

I cannot believe everyone is so ignorant as to assume I think I am worse off than others. Just within my theatre department alone, I can think of only a dozen other families that have a higher income than I. I've asked a lot of my friends how much aid they are receiving and the numbers have shocked me. Are they really that bad off? Yes. Yes they are. However, THEIR student loans will be at about $15,000 when they graduate. How is it that I have to pay $70,000 more? How is it that one of my wealthier friends was eligible for work study and I was not? These are the questions that I want answered.

The system seems to be working great for the lower class, but the middle class get screwed. At least all of my middle class friends and I.

Do I have it "good"? Compared to others, OF COURSE. But my point is that even my situation isn't GOOD. The system is not working for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of us.