Sure, they like Nelson Mandela NOW....

Ronald Reagan hated Nelson Mandela almost as much as he LOVED Osama Bin Laden.

Last night Rick Santorum compared "Obamacare" to Apartheid- WRONG, rick! The difference? Republicans SUPPORTED Apartheid.






Memories.....

Updated On: 12/6/13 at 03:42 PM

Look at this! The hypocrites!
Eulogizing, rhapsodizing!
"Kennedy!"
"Kennedy!"
They hated him!
They murdered him!
Did him in!
And now...

---

Other peoples' maids are so much nicer.

---

Countdown till we hear that Lincoln was a Republican, who freed the Native Americans . . .

Welcome back Jordan! :)

Fun fact about the democratic psrty. It was founded to preserve slavery. .
Andrew Jackson probably the biggest racist President in history was their Lincoln.
Look it up!

---

So Namo. Please educate us. What did Presedent Jimmy Peanut do to get him out of jail and end apartheid. .. or is he immune from your wrath?

---

The Reagan years were nightmarish- and a big part of why I am so politically aware (some might say obsessed) today. Apartheid was a big issue- and wildly unpopular in the US. It was a basic, simple thing to understand. And pretty much everyone I knew thought it was wrong- ranging from the people who found it repulsive to the folks who didn't really think about it much but when they did, agreed it was obviously wrong. There was no reason for Nelson Mandela to be in prison. But Ronald Regan thought it was just fine. Some times he thought it was over. OR maybe no big deal. OR just the way things had to be. So we had a nation that by and large, HATED Apartheid and wanted it ended and yet, loved old Ronnie Raygun. It was frankly infuriating.

It took a long long time to bring public opinion around. As is often the case, it took some silly celebrity stunts as well as some more serious efforts. Finally it got to the point that the US congress had to act- they passed the first anti-Apartheid legislation in 1986 and Reagan vetoed it. That's how much Ron DIDN'T hate Apartheid. Here's the amazing part- CONGRESS OVERRODE HIS VETO and the US started major sanctions against South Africa. Sanctions by the US and other nations had an impact on South Africa and within a few years, Mandela was freed, Apartheid abolished and...well, If he understood what was happening Ron and much of his coterie were pissed.

Jimmy Carter used his position as president to call attention to Mandela's imprisonment and calling for his release- one of his great regrets was that he didn't have the support of the congress to institute sanctions against the African government. I guess you'd compare it to Ronald Reagan saying "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Carter wasn't able to free Mandela, but he sure helped call attention to the situation.

So Sue, as a Russian, what was your perspective on Mandela? What was your perspective on Ronald Reagan for that matter? When he "joked" that he had signed legislation "outlawing" the Soviet Union and was going to begin bombing them in 5 minutes, how did you and your family feel? Was it odd coming to the US and see a man who was so vilified in your country so beloved here? You WERE here in the USA when Reagan died, right? How did you & your parents feel at his "Hero's funeral"?

Yes, I don't understand why she is trying to make the issue what Carter did or didn't do to end Apartheid. The issue is what Ronald Reagan did to continue it.

Yes, you are correct- I don't think people who didn't witness the horror of the Reagan years are ever going to feel the same. I can only hope maybe someone will read what I said and start to understand why not all of us see him as a jovial, harmless old man.

I've come to realize these trolls don't just piss into our punch bowl... They run around the party and stick their fingers in anyone's mouth who seems to be taking the attention away from them.

And trolls have baby poop all over their fingers.

---

Really? You think Reagan, who spoke in FAVOR of the regime holding Mandela, blocked efforts to sanction them for imprisoning him and was one of the racist South African government's staunchest supporters in the UN "Treated Mandela the same way Carter did"?

Carter specifically called for Mandela's release 48 times while president. Reagan called for his release zero times.

Carter used his executive power to stop exports to South Africa in 1978. Reagan blocked efforts in the UN to apply diplomatic pressure on South Africa and called on the UK, France, West Germany, Canada to "constructively engage" the regime.


I could go on and on. You cannot seriously think that Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan "Treated Mandela the same."

And I know my share of Russians. Some are "liberal" and some are "conservative." Every one of them can tell you exactly where they were when Ronnie made his joke about killing them all.

Honestly. You go to all the trouble to layout your timeline and evolving political awareness and trolls do their troll thing and ask BUT what about before that era?, and you point out that before that era there was somebody who did something but was undermined by opposing party members and stymied and therefore it was not enough but DURING the era you're talking about the replacement for the guy who was undermined when he tried to do something was a guy who actively worked in the wrong direction on the subject of apartheid and LAUGHED AT people like you and your friends and loved ones who were suffering as an epidemic hit them and after you go to all that trouble, more trouble than the troll deserves, it comes back with another reference to the guy BEFORE the era you are talking about. I guess that's trolling in a nutshell.

It's a false equivalency. Jimmy Carter didn't act callously toward the lives of people affected by HIV or apartheid, he did what he could about the latter. So did Reagan: he did what he could to strengthen apartheid and he laughed about AIDS.

End of story.

---

Updated On: 12/7/13 at 03:36 PM