Sure, they like Nelson Mandela NOW....

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 3:42pm

Ronald Reagan hated Nelson Mandela almost as much as he LOVED Osama Bin Laden.

Last night Rick Santorum compared "Obamacare" to Apartheid- WRONG, rick! The difference? Republicans SUPPORTED Apartheid.






Memories..... Updated On: 12/6/13 at 03:42 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 3:54pm

Touche!!!

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 4:47pm

Look at this! The hypocrites!
Eulogizing, rhapsodizing!
"Kennedy!"
"Kennedy!"
They hated him!
They murdered him!
Did him in!
And now...

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 5:02pm

Marry me.

[BudFrump23]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 5:46pm

Other peoples' maids are so much nicer.

[Playbilly]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 6:44pm

You're surprised by Republican hypocrisy? Being on the wrong side of history? Choosing profits over freedom or rights? Where have you been...for a hundred years?

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 7:17pm

Countdown till we hear that Lincoln was a Republican, who freed the Native Americans . . .

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 8:23pm

He also brought them turkey and stuffing for the first thanksgiving. And disputing that is a lie put forth by liberal media lie machine.

[suestorm]

Posted: 12/6/13 at 9:08pm

Welcome back Jordan! :)

Fun fact about the democratic psrty. It was founded to preserve slavery. .
Andrew Jackson probably the biggest racist President in history was their Lincoln.
Look it up!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 12:11pm

Working diligently in the fight against AIDS and trying to get the Republican Reagan administration to do anything but laugh about the epidemic gave many people in Amerika a clear taste of what it was like to live in two separate societies, with one telling everyone that this was "the greatest country in the world" while encouraging citizens to disregard the poor and suffering. It was a HORRIBLE time in this country's very recent history, with many of the agents of these dirty deeds still among us.

It surprised none of us, that the same administration that shrugged off our dead and dying labelled Nelson Mandela a terrorist. It was impossible for us to not make the connection to the separate societies in South Africa and how the epidemic and those affected by it were dismissed by the mad men in power here. When the congress, including the Republican-controlled Senate, voted to finally impose sanctions on South Africa, there was only one president to veto it, Ronald Reagan, and he did.

It's a shameful, shameful legacy and anyone who tries to minimize it is naive at best, a collaborator at worst. Two things I am glad to have seen in my lifetime: the death of Ronald Reagan and Nelson Mandela on his US tour.

[suestorm]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 12:50pm

So Namo. Please educate us. What did Presedent Jimmy Peanut do to get him out of jail and end apartheid. .. or is he immune from your wrath?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 1:05pm

The answer I have for you is the one Dick Cheney had for Patrick Leahy.

Now, while the troll with the poisonous moronic ideas is taking care of that, astute readers will recognize that my previous post shows the timeline of how many of us became aware of the political dimensions of apartheid and the criminal neglect of a burgeoning epidemic DURING the Reagan administration. The troll is not an astute reader and is doing deep damage while Leahying itself right now, we hope.

Updated On: 12/7/13 at 01:05 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 1:36pm

The Reagan years were nightmarish- and a big part of why I am so politically aware (some might say obsessed) today. Apartheid was a big issue- and wildly unpopular in the US. It was a basic, simple thing to understand. And pretty much everyone I knew thought it was wrong- ranging from the people who found it repulsive to the folks who didn't really think about it much but when they did, agreed it was obviously wrong. There was no reason for Nelson Mandela to be in prison. But Ronald Regan thought it was just fine. Some times he thought it was over. OR maybe no big deal. OR just the way things had to be. So we had a nation that by and large, HATED Apartheid and wanted it ended and yet, loved old Ronnie Raygun. It was frankly infuriating.

It took a long long time to bring public opinion around. As is often the case, it took some silly celebrity stunts as well as some more serious efforts. Finally it got to the point that the US congress had to act- they passed the first anti-Apartheid legislation in 1986 and Reagan vetoed it. That's how much Ron DIDN'T hate Apartheid. Here's the amazing part- CONGRESS OVERRODE HIS VETO and the US started major sanctions against South Africa. Sanctions by the US and other nations had an impact on South Africa and within a few years, Mandela was freed, Apartheid abolished and...well, If he understood what was happening Ron and much of his coterie were pissed.

Jimmy Carter used his position as president to call attention to Mandela's imprisonment and calling for his release- one of his great regrets was that he didn't have the support of the congress to institute sanctions against the African government. I guess you'd compare it to Ronald Reagan saying "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Carter wasn't able to free Mandela, but he sure helped call attention to the situation.

[suestorm]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 1:37pm

^^ in other words president carter did nothing to free mandela and stop apartheid. ..

You can tell by how he attacked me instead of answering the question

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 1:55pm

So Sue, as a Russian, what was your perspective on Mandela? What was your perspective on Ronald Reagan for that matter? When he "joked" that he had signed legislation "outlawing" the Soviet Union and was going to begin bombing them in 5 minutes, how did you and your family feel? Was it odd coming to the US and see a man who was so vilified in your country so beloved here? You WERE here in the USA when Reagan died, right? How did you & your parents feel at his "Hero's funeral"?

[romantico]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 1:59pm

Don't forget Sue is um, '*eh hem* not even 26 years old. She seems to know A LOT about things that went on in the 70's and 80's but she is still just a young college girl (or so she wants you to believe)

What is it with the right's HATRED towards Jimmy Carter? I could never understand it. I could barely see the Kennedy Hatred but Carter? President Carter, the only US President who did not take us into war,dropped a bomb,or fired a bullet.Both ex President's Carter and Clinton have done more out of office then they did while in power. Both are humanitarians that make me as an American very proud.Regan and the Bush's seem to leave office and hit the golf course for the most part.

The Reagan years were God Awful. The idiots who love to rewrite history see it very different though. Good luck trying to reason with them.

Updated On: 12/7/13 at 01:59 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 2:04pm

Yes, I don't understand why she is trying to make the issue what Carter did or didn't do to end Apartheid. The issue is what Ronald Reagan did to continue it.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 2:05pm

Listen, it isn't worth responding to it. Normal human beings change and grow and evolve over their lives. I detailed what it was like to grow in awareness and make the connections overtime, in the 80s. One can easily fall into the trap of stupid and idiotic ideas laid out by the troll, like, why didn't somebody else push harder in the right direction before he was replaced by somebody who pushed further back in the wrong direction? It's a fool's game put in this thread by a foolish troll with foolish understandings of political growth, ethical behavior and false moral equivalencies. Reading as it expounds on eras it ALLEGEDLY did not witness first hand to people who did is comically tragic.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 2:12pm

Yes, you are correct- I don't think people who didn't witness the horror of the Reagan years are ever going to feel the same. I can only hope maybe someone will read what I said and start to understand why not all of us see him as a jovial, harmless old man.

[suestorm]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 2:58pm

Romantico... the jfk assassnation happened before you were born right? How do you know about it then? You shouldnt according to you since it happened before you were born right? Also, did you ever go to school? They teach you about history there even stuff that happened along time ago like the civil war and french revolution. I also have a computer. On it there's this thing called google. It lets you look up stuff you may not know about. Its really cool. You should try it.

Joe I answered this a while back but ill answer again since you ask. If you ask any Russian. Ukrainian. Latvian. Belarusian. Czech. Pole etc They will all tell you they hated Soviet Union and that Reagan along with Pope soon to be Saint John Paul the second and lech walesa are the most responsible for killing Soviet Union and freeing eastern Europe and Asia along with Gorbachev. That is why he is hero to us. That is why eastern european immigrants are mostly conservative.

My Jimmy Carter remark was simply to show Namo is picking on Reagan who treated Nelson the same way Carter did. By doing nothing. So if you're going to yell at rr you must yell at jimmy. Unless you want to look like an apologist for jimmy.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 3:16pm

I've come to realize these trolls don't just piss into our punch bowl... They run around the party and stick their fingers in anyone's mouth who seems to be taking the attention away from them.

And trolls have baby poop all over their fingers.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 3:26pm

And trolls have baby poop all over their fingers.

Just ewwww...

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 3:29pm

Really? You think Reagan, who spoke in FAVOR of the regime holding Mandela, blocked efforts to sanction them for imprisoning him and was one of the racist South African government's staunchest supporters in the UN "Treated Mandela the same way Carter did"?

Carter specifically called for Mandela's release 48 times while president. Reagan called for his release zero times.

Carter used his executive power to stop exports to South Africa in 1978. Reagan blocked efforts in the UN to apply diplomatic pressure on South Africa and called on the UK, France, West Germany, Canada to "constructively engage" the regime.


I could go on and on. You cannot seriously think that Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan "Treated Mandela the same."

And I know my share of Russians. Some are "liberal" and some are "conservative." Every one of them can tell you exactly where they were when Ronnie made his joke about killing them all.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 3:35pm

And oh- it might be instructive to ponder: Bishop Desmond Tutu said Reagan could end apartheid overnight if he wanted...well read it yourself:
US could end Apartheid tomorrow

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/7/13 at 3:36pm

Honestly. You go to all the trouble to layout your timeline and evolving political awareness and trolls do their troll thing and ask BUT what about before that era?, and you point out that before that era there was somebody who did something but was undermined by opposing party members and stymied and therefore it was not enough but DURING the era you're talking about the replacement for the guy who was undermined when he tried to do something was a guy who actively worked in the wrong direction on the subject of apartheid and LAUGHED AT people like you and your friends and loved ones who were suffering as an epidemic hit them and after you go to all that trouble, more trouble than the troll deserves, it comes back with another reference to the guy BEFORE the era you are talking about. I guess that's trolling in a nutshell.

It's a false equivalency. Jimmy Carter didn't act callously toward the lives of people affected by HIV or apartheid, he did what he could about the latter. So did Reagan: he did what he could to strengthen apartheid and he laughed about AIDS.

End of story.

Updated On: 12/7/13 at 03:36 PM