The Abu Ghraib crisis: 48 hrs pass, and it's party vs. party — Page 3

Papa: I think you're right -- many people certainly prefer to have Rumsfeld in place, if for no other reason than to have a central point of access, through whom the ongoing inquiry can be funneled. The target of rage/disgust is amorphous, and as even jack Cafferty keeps saying on CNN in the a.m., why should the grunts be scapegoated? As Levin noted, with an eye toward telling detail: a lot of abuse peraphernalia just happened to be available for this handful of privates on a lurid spree. The dogs alone raise questions, no? General Janet seems to be in deeper dodo after today's testimony. Toguba was very sharp in his implied condemnation. So in short order, we've at least begun to look higher than that eerily androngynous young woman from West Virginia with the cigarette in her teeth.

With the latest news, of a civilian beheading in retaliation, look for the focus to move from the abuse in some quarters. Too many people keep conveniently forgetting: Al Q is in Iraq now, active, recruiting, fighting us, because we showed up. It will be spun to imply that the prisoners we had PG-13 pranks with (Limbaugh, Inhofe) are automatically young Mohamma Atta wannabes. But wait, he was ... an Egyptian, and the other 9/11 guys were Saudis... But on the other hand, this is a war against Saddam's Rebublican Guard. Those nasty Bathists. No wait -- they are now working in Fallujah. Golly, let's just make 'em all the enemy, hm? Sooo much easier.

Sometimes,I think about Mary MacGregor in PRIME OF MISS JEAN BRODIE, who, once goaded to get involved, passionately in some cause, any cause, ran off to Spain and died supporting the wrong side.

I must say, I'm already tired of the Inhofe spin (which sent McCain from the room, by the way). He implied that those of us outraged by this were less appalled by the charred bodies in Falljah. How pitiful an assumption. It's precisly BECAUSE of our outrage over Falljuah's inhumane debacle that we are so ashamed of this. It is, if nothing else, that famous "context" which we're being accused of ignoring.

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Updated On: 5/11/04 at 02:58 PM

I'm certainly no pundit, but I offer two reasons why all involved should be taken to the woodshed: LAME EXCUSES and STUPIDITY.

1. LAME EXCUSES

I have heard the following excuse given to explain the actions of these U.S. soldiers: "they suffer from lack of training." Come now, you can do better than that -- what kind of training does it take to know it's NOT okay to insert glow sticks in prisoners' orifici?

2. STUPIDITY

Okay, if you're gonna suffer from lack of training and commit acts of torture, for crissake, don't take frikkin' PICTURES of it!

Bush and company are doing more tap-dancing now than the bus-and-truck company of 42ND STREET. Bwahahahaha

actually, that would explain why there were pictures at all and it indicts, if they were not already culpable, the military intelligence interrogators. subjects of interrogation would be a bit more willing to talk should they see a few of those with the implied threat, "do you want this to be you?" which, would be a really good psy-op if it had included releases signed by free iraqis who posed for the pictures out of civic duty or for cold hard cash.

now, the if they can just get the guys in that dog pile photo to come forward and say that they did it of their own free will for a few bucks and to help foster freedom in iraq, that they were not in any way coerced.

back off, you lefty bastages, i'm revelling dammit, i can dream can't i?

at least we'll finally get beyond the intelligence guys feigning innocence and saying, "hey we just asked the mps to keep them awake for us...sheesh, those doggone psycho mps!"

but in the big ol' historic picture, what happened there, while it will be remembered by iraqis, when they view it in a historical context, they'll always weigh it next to 35 years of worse abuses suffered by hundreds of thousands more at the hands of saddam. it's tragic, and it's a black eye, and it should never have happened, and those responsible should be strenuously punished, but when placed on a scale next to the dictator who ran the prison previously, they're a drop in the bucket, and a little one at that.

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Updated On: 5/11/04 at 06:40 PM

sorry auggie, i was responding to the comment about lyndie in the history books. it may well be a tsunami in the short term, but fortunately, iraq hasn't much coastline.

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yep, that's a good idea, there, iflit, let's turn tail and run, thus giving the terrorist an object lesson in how to defeat a superpower. oh, and by the way, abandoning the majority of iraqis who want to live in peace to the mercies of the foreign fighters who would love nothing more than to establish a new taliban like state. oh and what about the resulting civil war that willresult between the kurds in the north and the shia in the south and the sunni in the middle? oh those refugees that never materialized during the war despite the red cross and amnesty internationals dire calls for millions of refugees? get ready to have to house them as they flee in droves the crack down and the genocidal mass murders that will follow. we cannot walk away. it's not an option.

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i love it when namo and i agree...sort of.

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whew, the patchouli smell is passing...

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ann is busy even now monitoring the sales of the ann coulter action figure (http://www.talkingpresidents.com/products-af-coulter.shtmlhttp://www.talkingpresidents.com/products-af-coulter.shtml>http://www.talkingpresidents.com/products-af-coulter.shtml) which no god fearing red blooded little fascist should be without. i'm taking at least three to my niece in the hopes that ann's rhetoric will nudge her towards reality when compared to that of my brother.

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in the interest of fairness, i want beheading photos of nick berg on the front pages of every single effin' paper that published abu grahib photos. i wanna see some towel headed s*** weasel holding his severed head while several others cheer and smile approvingly. what's good for the goose is good for the motherf****** gander. let's see 'em cbs, show the tape. cnn where are ya on this one? are iraqis somehow less than human that makes it okay to show them being tortured? let's see the whole story, folks or isn't it newsworthy when an american is killed? isn't it newsworthy when it might serve to inflame the american people as opposed to the arab world? i want to see blood dripping from his severed head and the cretins responsible dipping their hands in it. you wanna see how bad war is? you wanna show the images, well, baby let's see 'em all !

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i don't want outrage, auggie, i want pictures on the same pages that trumpetted the horrific actions of americans. i want the video show in it's entirety with subtitles on every media outlet that's been showing abu grahib video. cnn's aaron brown said, "you don't appreciate what happened in that prison until you see it." well, i think the same holds true for mr. berg's murder. let's see it.

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papalovesmambo - To be fair, the photos of the Iraqi prisoners published in the papers and magazines were of live prisoners. The photos of Berg on the front pages that I witnessed this morning were also of him alive. Why in the world do you want to watch ANYONE get murdered? This need for viewing real assassinations and torture is really starting to freak me out. I still don't believe the photos or the videos should be shown out of respect for all the victims. If reading the story isn't good enough for the public, tough.

If someone want to see a live person beheaded, they should go and committ the act themself, and if they live in the proper state, they can be present for their own execution. To me, the insistence and demand for viewing these materials is as bad as the acts depicted. I feel sick.

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Updated On: 5/12/04 at 11:33 AM