The Mecca of Education is anti-Catholic- Page 2

[Elphaba]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 6:07pm

I guess my only comment/question would be: If you hate your job so much, why are you teaching? You certainly aren't doing you, or your students any good.....

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 6:20pm

My only question is what minor Jewish holidays Dolly was referring to. If in fact it was a minor holiday, as oppose to one of the three major holidays, then I think he has a point.

I am trying to get a point of reference for his complaint.

[blueroses]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 6:35pm

YWIW, maybe it's something like Sukkot or Tish B'Av? If Dolly is in a NY public school system, most are closed for the high holidays and Passover week (which coincides with Easter).

Either way, the Feast is far from a "minor" holiday for practicing Catholics and the principal was way out of line for just dismissing it as nothing.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 6:49pm

This is why religion is the root of all the problems in the world.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 7:20pm

Blue, you may be right. There are not that many holidays that would require you to take off, although sometimes with the Jewish calendar Passover is earlier or later than Easter.

And, I was not inferring that the Feast was a minor holiday, I was just trying to figure out what holidays Dolly was comparing it to.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 7:58pm

I'm no teacher and a former Catholic. Correct me if I'm wrong but public and private (yes even parochial schools) are in session on Dec. 8 as well as "Ash Wednesday, Holy Thursday" and a few other "traditional Catholic" holy days. Unless things have changed, Catholic schools have their own set of "holy days" off "every time a saint sneezes" as I used to gloat to my public school friends.
Many public schools generally have off for the Jewish holidays because the sending districts have a large population of Jewish familes, and that is board approved and pre-scheduled on a per district basis.

You can't expect every public school to abide by all religious preferences. If a teacher's contract allows for X amount of personal days or personal religious day, give notice and just take it. This is no different than any other job. (Holy Day /cocktail party, my pink butt). Let's not go there.

Updated On: 12/23/06 at 07:58 PM

[Marlene]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 8:00pm

Yea, I had a orthodox jew as my math teacher all of Junior year. She usually was not in for the holidays that blueroses mentioned. The NYC Board of Education only seems to work around high holidays. I still remember that the senior prom was somehow scheduled on a minor jewish holiday, and thus some of the more religious students were unable to attend. Who knows.

That's odd Dolly. I am unsure as to whether or not they were able to take leave, but I am aware of certain educators at my school taking off for the immaculate conception.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 8:00pm

Rather broad brush, Stage Manager, blaming religion for all the worlds problems

[cheezedoodle]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 8:08pm

This is true PB. I went to Catholic school, and we got a lot more "Holidays" than public school kids because of the Catholic schedule. Actually - all the Jewish kids in our school - and there were a lot because it is a much better education than public schools - also enjoyed these days off. I never heard of anyone - student or otherwise - taking "holy" days off from public school at all. Maybe DP should get a job in a Catholic school - but then, he would actually have to act like a Catholic, and I am sure that would cut into his happy hour.

[D2]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 8:13pm

READ his post. He went to a religious service in the morning. He spoke at a religious function that day. The cocktail party did not happen until the evening - a perfectly respectable event at a perfectly respectable hour.

I too went to Catholic school, and my parents were very involved in my parish. I remember all sorts of social events (private parties, parish functions, etc...) where the priests were knocking back as many, if not more, as the civilians. (It was the late 60's/early 70's - things were different then.)

[kjklo]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 8:27pm

Having grown up Catholic, I can verify that drinking is, indeed, an accepted component of most religious holidays.

As Lenny Bruce once said: "Another martini for Mother Cabrini!"

[cheezedoodle]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 8:27pm

D2 - i have been reading DP's post's for two years now. Nothing personal to you at all, but this man has no business being a teacher at all. He has made many statements about hating his job, as well as hating his students. Do a search if you don't believe me - but this guy is just one bitter pill waiting to be digested by humanity.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 8:55pm

Let's face it, it's a thankless job to be a teacher, a challange to be a good teacher and a rarity to become a great teacher. It's even tougher to be a good parent.

Then there are teachers, that we've all had, that hate their jobs and make students lives as miserable as their own.
Some thrive on that. That and 2 things; the protection of their tenure and a fat pension in the wings. Sad. etc. etc.

Not to worry..people reap what they sow.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 9:06pm

Seriously, Dolly. You have no business being a teacher. Much like my history teacher from last year. She was a bitter old woman and loved to take her anger out on her students every chance she got (which was pretty much every day)? You know what she did last year? She did us all a huge favor and retired!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should definitely do the same. I don't even know why they still keep you. I'm gonna go read some of your old threads now. I'm sure it'll be a ball.

[D2]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 9:09pm

cheezedoodle: thanks for the clarification. How Catholic of me to weigh in with an opinion without knowing all the facts.

But I still feel that, regardless of DP's history, the main point is that he had a right to take the day off for his religious beliefs, and that right was denied. He has a case.

I am also (among many other things) a teacher - on the college level. It's tough, but at least I don't hate it. I agree that if you hate being in the classroom, then get out. It doesn't serve anybody.

And PB - tenure isn't a given. I've seen many, many teachers denied tenure for one reason or another. Some deserved to be sacked, others didn't. And, of course, I've seen many, many teachers get tenure who shouldn't be within ten miles of a student. It's all a popularity contest, and one reason why I prefer to remain an adjunct.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 9:33pm

I've taken my case to our chapter leader--who is ineffectual. I think I'll have to send an e-mail directly to Randi Weingarten, the UFT President.

Why am I still teaching? After 35 years, I still have some red tape to cut through before I can retire.

No, the "minor Jewish Holy Days are NOT Rosh Hoshanna or Yom Kippur (forgive my spelling!), but the Festival of the Booths. There is another one that I can't remember. The NYC schools are closed on the Jewish High Holy Days.Incidentally, the schools are also closed on Holy Thursday and good Friday--which are NOT Holy Days of Obligation.

By the way, it's the Jewish teachers who have been most supportive about this.

Updated On: 12/24/06 at 09:33 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:08pm

Dolly, the Festival of the Booths is another name for Sukkot, it is related time-wise to Yom Kippur (or Kippour - there are so many different accepted spellings!) While I don't think it is a minor holiday, it is not, in my opinion, on the same level as the big three. I do think you have a valid complaint here, not that what I think matters one bit in the big picture.

Thanks for providing the info, because I just wanted to get some context.

And Matt - maybe you should get a job and have to be responsible for making your own way in the world before you start telling people what to do with their careers.

Truth be told, many do not like what they do for a living, and do not have the luxury of stopping on a dime and changing careers.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:11pm

Catholic schools don't even close for Holy Days of Obligation anymore. They just have a mandatory Mass for the students and teachers. Most people just make sure they get to Mass before or after work and that's about it. That's what the "obligation" is.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:14pm

In general, I'm in favor of any religion that includes cocktails.

[D2]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:17pm

Yes, but why shouldn't Catholics (or Protestants, or Buddhists, for that matter) be able to take a personal day for their religious beliefs. The university where I teach shuts up like a clam for every Jewish Holiday, and every Jew I've ever worked with has taken the day(s) with no questions asked. Why can't it be the same for all religions?

[The Grovers Corners Yenta]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:17pm

Dollypop.......I don't kinow what to say other than stick to your guns. Can your priest at Mary Immaculate help you at all? {I do remember that church very well. } I do remembewr when I was a child, we did not have off for holidays such as Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur or festivals such a Passover , Sukkot, etc. My parents did keep us out of school so we could go to synagogue. That often involved my parents having to fight to not have tests schduled or assignments do. My father often had trouble taking days off himself. But their persistance paid off. Please just keep plugging away at it. And for heavens sakes, don't listen to those ignorant posters who say that you are a bad teacher. Fighting for you religious beliefs and your rights teaches many a valuable lesson.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:17pm

Noly Thursday! Is that a holy day honoring Nick Nolty?
I hope you put in for that paid holy day too while your bending their ear.

Forgive your spelling? Let's see... nice present? or bag of coals? hmmmmm. BAG OF COALS for me! Learn how to spell English teacher! LOL!

Updated On: 12/23/06 at 10:17 PM

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:25pm

"Most people just make sure they get to Mass before or after work and that's about it. That's what the "obligation" is."

It's not as if mass happens every hour on the hour. As a teacher, your hours are pretty prescribed, weekday masses are often around 9 or 10 AM, which is usually pretty well into the school day. Going to mass before or after school generally isn't an option, especially if you're particularly set on worshipping with your parish.

There are many other ways that the Holy Day is celebrated in addition to attending Mass. Dolly spoke at an event, and attended a gathering, all of which fit into that Holy Day celebration. Even though the Catholic Schools are still usually in session, much of the day is often dedicated to studying and celebrating the Holy Day even after Mass concludes.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:29pm

The schedules are changed for Holy Days of Obligation, no?

It's probably hard for people who are committed to such practices when even former Holy Days of Obligation have been de-Obligated.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 12/23/06 at 10:31pm

Not in my experience. I teach and accompany Mass at two parishes, neither of whom changed their schedules for the Immaculate Conception Masses.

And we had many people who took the mornings off of work, and excused their children from the public schools to attend the Mass.