US Gay Secession... — Page 2

I think the day is a perfect choice....for a couple of reasons....MLK DID believe in equality for all, yet 75% of his brothers in CA voted AGAINST gay marriage.

I think it is most fitting doing this on his day.

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Why is everyone so against admitting to the fact that the majority of black people are homophobic? No one is saying go out and assault a black person, or call them racist names, but we are saying that the black community needs to wake up! I have no idea what area people live in where the think that black people are so loving to gay people, but it's not an area I have ever visited in California or out of it.

As I've said in previous posts, we should use the data to outreach to ALL minority groups we missed. We missed the black group because people were afraid of the knowledge that black people are very homophobic and so we failed to reach them to change their minds.

Not every black person is against gay rights, but all of my gay black friends can attest to the fact that there is an overwhelming bigotry against gay people ESPECIALLY in the black community. I think everyone is pointing fingers at the black community simply because they expected a group who were treated so horribly would be more understanding but what we found out is that blacks are only against bigotry if it's directed at them.

That may seem like a racist statements, but it's not meant to be. It's simply the facts.

However, I think it would be more productive to target RELIGIONS other then RACES when dealing with this issue, as the black vote was, for the most part, a RELIGIOUS vote.

Updated On: 11/7/08 at 04:48 PM

I'm certainly not against taking some organized action against this injustice. But this plan strikes me in the same way as those, "nobody buy gas on Tuesday!" emails do. It doesn't effect consumption, or sales taxes or anything. it just delays it for a day. If I need to go grocery shopping on 1/19 and don't, I'll probably just buy more beforehand in anticipation or go on the 20th instead.

These plans are so easy for the intended object to ignore because they know you're not going to consume less. You're just going to change the day you do it on.

If I'm wrong, talk me down. But I don't think change like this comes so easily. We need marches, protests and rallies, out where people can see us. I've been to hundreds of vigils, marches and rallies over the years fighting for marriage equality. And there are seldom more than a dozen other 'regular' people who show up.

The gay community has become complacent. Gay pride parades and festivals have become nothing more than drunken go-go boy parties. If all these plans, letters and outrage were happening before this proposition was voted on, it might not have passed. The straight community won't, and has no reason to change this for us. If we want change, we have to get out there, get dirty and FIGHT for our rights!

Rant over. I am receptive to being convinced otherwise and am keenly aware that some in this thread DO fight the fight I'm talking about on a daily basis.

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Updated On: 11/7/08 at 04:50 PM

No but what is and WAS racist is the CNN poll that people on this board and all over the media that blamed blacks for the passage of Prop 8.


Statistically it was impossible for that 70% (not 75%) of black vote to have impacted the vote EITHER way. Yet they still got blamed for "pushing it over." It was impossible.

There is also a myth that blacks are MORE homophobic than whites. This is just not true.

"Why is everyone so against admitting to the fact that the majority of black people are homophobic?"

What are you basing this prejudice on? Seriously? That CNN Poll? Do you understand how small the poll of people that was AND blacks were TARGETED in CA so they would vote YES on Prop 8

I am against it because I have not seen ANY EVIDENCE proving this point.

I joined because I agree - we need to be heard, en masse.

I also commented that we need to find an alternate date.

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"Now...why don't you address the fact that the EXIT POLL said that 70% of all the AA's who voted happened to vote YES and 74% of the AA women. "

As I mentioned before the CNN poll is scant in detail when it comes to black voters. That said, there is a lot of evidence as mentioned in my earlier thread that black voters were targeted by Yes on Prop 8. Target with phone calls and mailers stating that "Barack Obama supports Prop 8 and you should vote with him."

Now you mention women, how many of these are church going women? That takes them out of the minority and into another. Regardless of their skin color they may have voted in line with the church.

Now PJ, the 70% is NOT where I'm calling racism. I'm calling racism in every thread and post and news article I read that suggests black people are the REASON THIS PASSED. Or that suggests black people are MORE HOMOPHOBIC THAT WHITE.

Yes it's right here on this board.

Now people are drawing these conclusions despite the fact that it is not possible for blacks to have impacted this vote, the CNN exit poll is scant in it's detail of black voters, (ie there is no undecided tally), and we have no idea why these people voted the way they did.

Everyone just assume that all of these votes for Prop 8 were homophobic. I just can't believe that. I think there was a lot of confusion and a lot of tactics used to win this vote. Prop 8 bought this ban.

Well, if you're not calling ME racist, I'm not sure who ELSE you're calling racist. I'm the one who posted the exit poll. I don't know anyone who is saying the 70% are the "reason" the vote passed.

Besides, exit poll or no exit poll, there is widespread and widely acknowledged homophobia in the black community. It's what fuels the institution of the Down Low and it deserves its own discussion, absent any accusation of racism.

I posted the exit poll because I found the 70% (and 74% of black women) shocking and upsetting. I still do.

That said, I still say the organizers of this event NEED to change the date or get some lesbian and gay black activists on board. I have suggested Keith Boykin and Pam Spaulding.

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LPF, they tried that -- but the courts declined to hear it at that point, saying that if it failed, it would be a moot point, anyway.

"Well, if you're not calling ME racist, I'm not sure who ELSE you're calling racist. I'm the one who posted the exit poll. I don't know anyone who is saying the 70% are the "reason" the vote passed."

PJ I'm not calling you a racist but I can sift through the other Prop 8 threads on this board and show you people that said rascist statements right off about this poll. And yes the assumption was that it passed because of them.

What's even worse this is whats being talked about in the media. It's just crazy.

"How nice ... the oppressed have become the oppressors. "

"I knew, deep in my heart, that African/Americans were not going to let this pass. They are still mad about the whole “DL” thing and getting caught. YES, BLACK FOLKS, YOU DO HAVE GAYS AMONGST YOU! STOP IGNORING FACTS!"


"Like it or not, the huge showing for Obama hurt the chances of defeating Prop 8. That means, there is work to be done educating the Black Community about the issue. "

"Education is needed - but that community is still to blame so lets not pretend otherwise. As I said earlier .... the oppressed have become the oppressors. "

As a liberal it just apalls me that legistlation can be brought up like this and a state constitution can be changed with cash.

The government is in place to protect us and our rights. The idea that private citizens and groups can push legistlation that breaks federal law is incredible. Or even put these issues up for debate.

I don't know anyone that was surprised by the passage of Prop 8 outside the gay community. All my friends and family think it will "works it's way out in state courts." Well guess what? It isn't working out.

Whether or not our fellow citizens like our skin color, our religions, our age, our body parts or our sexuality they should not be allowed to create law that is discriminatory. It's the least we can expect from our government. Yet here it is.

The time is coming. Where is our gay MLK?

It's not a sweeping generalization, it's the truth.

The majority of Evangelical Christians are against gays. That's not a sweeping generalization, it's the truth. I know some Evangelicals WHO ARE NOT against gay-marriage, but they admit most of those they know and who attend their church and make up their social circle ARE against gay-marriage.

The majority of republicans are against gay-marriage. My family is heavily republican but FAVORS gay-marriage and voted NO on 8 and gave money to the NO on 8 campaign.

Obviously not everyone who is black or religious or republican is anti-gay, but it would also be stupid of us to assume that they are in support of us when they are clearly not. We need to use this info to try and target these people and inform them of their bigotry.

We can complain about the mormon church and no one says anything, but the second we mention black people being bigoted people jump down our throats. I know some mormons who are asahmed of their church in regards to this issue, but the majority of mormon favor anti-gay laws. I also have many black friends who are very sad that their community turned their back on the gay issue...but they felt that they would because of blatant homophobia in the black community, more so then ANY OTHER RACIAL COMMUNITY.

Updated On: 11/7/08 at 07:24 PM

And for what it's worth, the admittedly small and skewed handful of African American people I have spoken with about planning a protest on this day have all virtually said the same thing - feathers will be ruffled no matter what, and Martin Luther King favored CIVIL RIGHTS for all, which is what this is all about.

In other news, this comforting quote from the Obama/Biden Transition policies:

"The Obama-Biden Transition Project does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, age, national origin, veteran status, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, or any other basis of discrimination prohibited by law."

Fully inclusive.

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