Virgin Megastore in Times Square closing...- Page 4

[winston89]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 10:07pm

tmm_fan, I'm confused.

You say that we should support small businesses. Buying our coffee from a small mom and pop coffee shop as oppose to a Starbucks. Going to an indie record store in the village as oppose to going to someplace like Virgin. And yet, you say that places like Virgin should stay and that if you were more aware of it you would have done something to prevent the closing of Tower Records. Doesn't that controdict sp? what your saying?

[tmm_fan]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 10:27pm

Everything is connected; record stores are dying breeds that need to be supported; one does not get the same feelings when running into Wal-Mart or Target and grabbing a CD while on the run.

I've reiterated my points many times here in the past; just do a little research; I don't wanna repeat myself. All I'll say is that my points do contain an underlying sense of strong emotion, and the societal ripple effects associated with it all.

This was actually my first thread in nearly a year because of some disrespecrting and insensitive jerks on this board. I've only now gotten up the courage. :)

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 10:38pm

While I do not think the closing of this store (or ANY store for that matter) represents the loss of morals and ethics, it's a shame it's closing. I do enjoy browsing record stores and wish there were more around me.

[tmm_fan]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 10:49pm

Me, too ... with no more Tower, and the closest Wherehouse nearly half an hour away, we have only two remaining. Here is an essay that I composed a while back; it's on both my Facebook and MySpace:

I am extremely shy and introverted; because of this, I notice things a lot more closely. And in the past year especially, I have slowly noticed a shift in the tide, so to speak; more and more people shopping at indies, seeing the shows at indie movie houses, participating in protests, realizing the manipulation of big business, etc. Granted, it's not all of society, but things are getting better. And this is due to change; to positive ripple effects associated with that change; to people being inspired and woken up by others.

From keplers.com, the website of a landmark local independent bookstore:

“SHOP LOCAL FIRST - Put Your Money Where Your House Is! When you shop at a mega-retailer chain store or an online retailer, most of your dollars leave the local economy. You may save a few cents, but the loss to our hometowns results in local unemployment, higher taxes, and reduced services. By supporting locally-owned, independent businesses, communities keep their dollars working for them as they enrich the local economy, increase the diversity of available products, provide better service and improve the quality of life for all of us.

In the late summer of 2005, Kepler’s, a fifty-year-old independent bookstore in Menlo Park, California, abruptly shut down. Owner Clark Kepler explained that bookstore chains and Amazon.com had displaced so much of the store’s sales that he could no longer pay the bills. But before Kepler could file for bankruptcy, the business was swept up in an outpouring of community grief. Hundreds of local residents rallied outside the shuttered store, which was soon covered in forlorn love letters from customers describing how the bookstore had been the center of community life and what a loss it was. “Can’t the store be saved? You’re one of the main reasons I’m here.” Many offered money: “How about a monthly donation? I can do $50/mo… Give us a Web site so we can all support you. Let us help. Please.” Soon someone set up SaveKeplers.com and the pledges poured in. Five weeks after it had closed, Kepler’s was back, saved by a group of local investors who vowed to return the business to sound financial footing, and numerous small donations from residents.

Once of the more remarkable aspects of this community effort to save a bookstore is that many of the people who rallied – who so adored this business that they could not conceive of their town without it and were willing to give their time and even their money to save it – confessed in interviews with reporters covering the story that they, too, had been buying more and more books online and at Target and Borders. They loved the store for its many author events and for the joy of browsing and meeting neighbors, and for the sense of community it fostered, but that devotion did not always translate into regular patronage. The store’s near closure brought into stark relief just what was at stake.

Across the country, people are coming to similar realizations about the value of locally owned, independent businesses – the beloved bookstores, century-old family hardware stores, local grocers, and funky neighborhood record stores – as well as the high cost to communities and local economies of the corporate retailers that have grown to dominate so much of our landscape… Independent Business Alliances have sprung up in more than three dozen communities since the late 1990s and, through creative marketing and educational campaigns, are making “locally owned” something residents are increasingly seeking and supporting… This explosion of activity may well herald the beginning of a sea change in our priorities as a society.

-The above excerpted from Big-Box Swindle by Stacey Mitchell (Beacon Press 2006)

In the spring of 2007, Clark Kepler, along with other independent business owners, formed an independent business alliance called Hometown Peninsula www.hometownpeninsula.org. Its mission is to keep peninsula hometowns alive and thriving by encouraging residents to buy from locally owned, independent businesses. Membership to Hometown Peninsula is open to local independent businesses that have a primary place of business on the peninsula and whose owners have a full-decision-making authority for their business. Individuals who support the goals of Hometown Peninsula may become supporting members.”

Things change, yes, but as an activist, which I am, what is wrong with trying to better society? People can argue about anything forever; there are always tiny technicalities that can be pointed out and knit-picked over. Thus, we "must" look at the bigger and clearer picture; "why" do many people say that society has gotten worse? "Why" have I and others always wanted to live in the '50's and '60's? What do the awesome morals and principals exhibited in TV shows of those times -- shows which remain wildly popular today -- tell about the mindsets of the programs extremely gifted writers, actors, directors, etc? And do these mindsets not have a major ripple effect on the way society is governed?

Compare all of this to today's culture. Yes, there has always been hell is this world, but in the last twenty or twenty-five years, this hell has reached new and catastrophic heights.

This is not based on a simple agreement vs disagreement between people; there is a definite, clear-as-day reason as to why I and others maintain this mindset. There is a huge reason why people began thinking this way, and that reasoning was based on what citizens saw as a downfall of society. Nobody can put a small indie store or chain in the same shadow as a huge conglomerate; just visit a local indie bookstore and then Barnes & Noble, and you will see why.

In these cases, one cannot over-think and thus eventually reach a conclusion that indies are in the same vein as Border's or Costco. In order to better society, we must think in moral and ethical terms; on the outer shell, so to speak, and what will really cause not only positive ripple effects in society, but also force people to think about what is really important.

To conclude, a great philosopher named Mahatma Gandhi once said, "Be the change you want to see in the world." He believed in nonviolent protests, and through this nonviolence, saw great change; or, rather, the possibility for great change. In today’s society, a straightforward and brutally honest attitude should be welcomed, as times have gotten so dire, and people need reassurances of morals and ethics. However, people should not go beyond words and use guns to make a point of view heard. Rape, gangbangs, stabbings, killing sprees, and sexual molestation of precious young girls are not the right way to go. We, the people, must find a way to communicate; to talk things out; to listen. To practice co-counseling and heart-learning.

Only then can we hope for a better world. And it is this hope that inspires me to "stand up" for what is really important.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 11:19pm

What the hell is this dribble?

[tmm_fan]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 11:22pm

Precisely why I rarely post here anymore

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 11:28pm

tmm_fan, unfortunately the case for Tower, Virgin Records, etc. can be made for many a business. Have you been down to 8th Avenue in Chelsea lately. What used to be a neighborhood with lots of character has been replaced by either a bank or drugstore virtually on every corner. I hardly recognize the place that held a lot of special memories when I used to live in NYC. No more 18th & 8th where I used to eat every Friday night for years. I was heartbroken to see it gone a couple of years ago. No more Big Cup which was a great place to meet friends and people watch. Unfortunately it's a sign of the times.

[tmm_fan]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 11:41pm

It is beyond devestating, and which is why I do fight; and which is why it is slowly working in small spurts. If nobody did anything, this world would be so lost. The fact that you do see people standing up for morals and ethics; it is a beautiful thing.

We are standing up for society, and everything that we wish it to be.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 10:59am

These stores need to be preserved; they serve as monuments to what once was and what can be again; to morals and ethics; to all that is decent and pure.

Because all small store owners are moral and ethical? Please. If you can afford to shop at small local shops, great. Not everybody can. And because they can't afford to shop where you want them to does not mean they are immoral or unethical. Go ahead and shop locally all you want. But don't try and tell us it makes you a more decent and pure person than the rest of us. It's like listening to the religious fanatics screaming on the streetcorner about why everyone else is going to Hell.

Matt, not sure where you get your kindle and ebook info, but Amazon has run out twice that I know of.

That's great, but where are they? I've never seen anyone with one. I've never met anyone who has even heard of them. Maybe they are popular amond publishers, but they're not exactly iPods. I have yet to see one in person or in use anywhere. I'm sure they are the wave of the future and will eventually catch on. Perhaps it is happening now and I just don't notice everyone with their eyes on a Kindle on the train or the bus or at the airport. Perhaps they only use them at home or in a classroom? I would love to see some form of ebook become popular, but there are still millions of book purists out there who want the book on their shelf or the newspaper in their hands. We'll see what happens, but traditional books still seem to be as popular as ever. Harry Potter was a testament to that.

[tmm_fan]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 1:24pm

I am sick of people on this board putting damn words in my mouth; I wrote an essay defending the position; never once did I say that everybody who went to Wal-Mart, etc was unethical. The stores as a whole, the system, are/is unethical, you cannot ignore that, and yes, it is a travesty, but I would never ever publicly or privately chastise a fellow human being who happens to be poor or not as well off as most people. And how dare you imply that I would; that I have some hidden unwritten motive behind the essay; a motive that wasn't even implied in the first place.

Updated On: 6/10/08 at 01:24 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 2:26pm

I am sick of people on this board putting damn words in my mouth; I wrote an essay defending the position; never once did I say that everybody who went to Wal-Mart, etc was unethical.

If you are so sick of it then maybe you should question why so many people do so. You say that the motive is never implied, but when you hold all local businesses up on a pedestal of morals, ethics, decency and pureness, and you try to steer everyone towards shopping at them because of those reasons, unless you clarify yourself, you are making implications towards chains and conglomerates and those who shop there. You also imply that all local businesses are inherently moral and ethical, which simply cannot be true either. I never implied you had an unwritten motive (speaking of putting words in one's mouth), I was responding to how your posts come across, which seem extremely self-righteous. Believe it or not, I get your point. I just think you express it very heavy-handed and poorly.

[tmm_fan]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 2:50pm

From experience, I am now very straight-forward; I have actually turned some people off from just one-on-one conversations, and I'm not afraid to speak the truth, no matter how brutal it comes across because I'm venturing across the "societal norm" ... I am defending these points from every angle; there is so much immorality in this world, and I'm not gonna ignore that for fear of hurting some peoples feelings. Not too be mean ... I realize that there are these oppressed groups of people, bless them, who can only afford to shop at Costco and Wal-Mart. But, these oppressed people shop at places who knowingly drop prices to accomodate them ... and one looks at say Wal-Mart, and Wal-Mart uses these oppressed people as a catalyst for their awful practices; Wal-Mart treats their customers as well as they do their employees.

I cannot ignore the reality; I do see the good in life, but I also cannot stand back and watch society fall; and history has shown numerous times that one person "can" make a difference.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 3:09pm

I realize that there are these oppressed groups of people, bless them, who can only afford to shop at Costco and Wal-Mart.

So where do you suggest the "oppressed" groups shop where they can afford the prices? Local stores, especially those selling grocery and sundry items, often mark up as much as 30%. Do you think the execution of the evil conglomerates will actually cause local businesses to lower their prices to suddenly accomodate the "oppressed" simply out of the kindness of their hearts? Nice thought, but unrealistic. That would be that pedestal I was mentioning before.

[Brave Sir Robin2]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 3:47pm

In other news, CVS is the Duane Reade of Los Angeles! Yay for large, tacky, plain, cheap drugstores with Extra gum!

[tmm_fan]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 7:46pm

That isn't my point. My point is that they have nowhere else toshop; the company knows that; and so they'e using the exploitation of them as a catalyst for their practices. I don't care if you agree with my ways, but I have caused people to think; to be optimistic about change. I posted that essay on my Facebook, and one of my dearest friends commented:

"In regards to your latest blog..................
It is so easy to get pessimistic about the way things are going in our country. Hearing from people like you makes me believe that things can change."

My underlying point is that we can nit-pick about anything forever; seek out certain sentences and attempt to distort the underlying element of the entire central argument. Many times, then, we have to ignore that nagging voice inside of us, and look at the big picture.

Only then can we realize our potential and abilities in bettering ourselves as human beings. And, ultimately, as a society. I do see it working; slowly but surely.

Updated On: 6/10/08 at 07:46 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 9:29pm

oh Jesus Christ tmm is back........NUKE THE WHALES, LITTER EVERYWHERE, WASTE WATER, WEAR FUR......

there, that should keep you busy for a bit

[etoile]

Posted: 6/11/08 at 2:11pm

So once again tmm_fan prattles on about "society" as defined by his standards, "morals and ethics" as defined by his standards, and the downward spiral of his civilization.

The "disrespecrting and insensitive jerks" are those who don't goose-step in line with his thinking. You know the type, people with actual life experiences, or those following dots that they can actually connect.

I love that he wrote, "...there is so much immorality in this world, and I'm not gonna ignore that for fear of hurting some peoples feelings." So, tmm, you don't believe that intentionally hurting someone's feelings is, it itself, immoral? Are you given a pass just because it's you doing the hurting?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/11/08 at 2:20pm

i love etoile and i don't care who knows it.

[etoile]

Posted: 6/11/08 at 2:27pm

Ah, papa, the feelings are reciprocal but I know you're just saying that because I used "goose-step" in my post. You love precision regimentation, don't you?

Updated On: 6/11/08 at 02:27 PM