Will the Democrats cave in today on FISA?

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 8:36am

Battle Over FISA to Reach Its End
By Tim Starks, CQ Staff
Efforts to confront President Bush over electronic surveillance laws likely will end abruptly in the Senate, with the White House the clear winner and Democrats dropping the fight until a new administration takes office.

The Senate is expected to send Bush a bill (HR 6304) Wednesday that would rewrite electronic surveillance guidelines after it votes down a trio of apparently doomed Democratic amendments.

The legislation would overhaul the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA, PL 95-511). The White House supports the bill, assuming the amendments it opposes fail as expected.

Christopher S. Bond , R-Mo., said the bill ended up being essentially what Bush wanted. “There really is not much that is significantly different, save some cosmetic fixes that were requested by the majority party in the House,” said Bond, who strongly supports the bill.

Bush has repeatedly said one of his top legislative priorities is overhauling the law to authorize enhanced executive branch spying powers and to provide a legal shield to telephone companies that cooperated with his warrantless surveillance program. The bill would establish a process to give Bush both, although with some additional court and congressional oversight.

Many Senate Democrats are expected to vote for the legislation, including presumed presidential nominee Barack Obama of Illinois, who is scheduled to attend the vote. Obama has said he opposes the provisions that would effectively give the telephone companies immunity for past participation in Bush’s surveillance program, but he favors the bill’s spying authority provisions...... (For full article hit the link)


Dear Obama, it's not compromise - it's caving in

[Roscoe]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 9:28am

Will Democrats cave in?

Will the sun rise?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 9:30am

yes bcause they are too busy regulating which blogs members are allowed to post to.

face it, folks: you're going to vote democrat no matter what they do and they know it. they really don't give a flying fig what you say or do because when push comes to shove they know you're going to vote for them no matter what they do or don't do. so you can scream about this until you go hoarse and they will still cave because they know if they don't they'll be painted as being unconcerned about national security. they are more worried about what independents and republicans think than they are about you and they always will be.

[madbrian]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 10:03am

Well, looks like there MIGHT be a compromise in the works. Senator Specter has proposed an amendment that seems to have some bipartisan support. It doesn't strip the immunity outright, but it does put it on hold until a Federal Court can review its constitutionality.

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200807/070808c.html

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 10:16am

wait. so it's a republican who's trying to limit immunity??? wow, buncha brave souls ya got there on the dem side.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 10:50am

I hope the ammendment goes through, but I'm not holding my breath on it. That would mean Congress might do the correct thing and not give the crooked president everything he wants.

Even though I will probably almost always vote Democrat - as soon as this election is over, I am registering Independent. Dean is pathetic, and Reid and Pelosi have been disasters. I will never give another penny nor support the DNC until major changes happen in the party.
Updated On: 7/9/08 at 10:50 AM

[madbrian]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 10:52am

FYI - c-span.org is showing Senate debate on FISA right now.

[madbrian]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 12:17pm

The Fiengold/Dodd amendment to remove retroactive immunity for telecoms is being voted on, and appears to be defeated. Many Dems, including Clinton and Obama supported the amendment, however it looks like all Republicans and some Democrats are voting against it. Votes on other amendments to follow.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 12:41pm

I'm confident that President Obama will change all this!

[madbrian]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 12:43pm

The Specter amendment was also defeated, by a similar margin (something like 36-62). The final amendment, proposed by Bingaman of New Mexico, is now being voted on.

Edit: the Bingaman amandement was also defeated, by a somewhat closer margin, 42-56. I believe the final vote on FISA will be later this afternoon.

Updated On: 7/9/08 at 12:43 PM

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 1:13pm

"yes bcause they are too busy regulating which blogs members are allowed to post to."

Nancy Pelosi is a disgrace to the Democratic party.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 1:31pm

but but I voted for Hillary and she cares about our rights... right?


"An amendment sponsored by Sens. Chris Dodd (D-CT) and Russ Feingold (D-WI) to strip telecom immunity from an update to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act failed 32 to 66, although that was more support than the 31 votes a similar amendment received in February. The shift appears to be a result of Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) voting in favor of the amendment -- she did not vote last time -- and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) skipping the vote -- he opposed the measure last time."

"Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama voted in favor of the Feingold/Dodd and Specter amendments, although he has said he will vote for the final FISA bill even if the immunity provision remains. The Illinois Senator has taken heat from supporters for reneging on an earlier pledge to oppose any FISA update that would grant immunity."



Obama voted to strip immunity, but it failed 32-66. Full FISA vote is around 2:15 p.m est Updated On: 7/9/08 at 01:31 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 2:35pm

Why are you still yammering on about Hillary?

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 2:38pm

last time I checked that (fill-in-the-blank) still works for me.

Updated On: 7/9/08 at 02:38 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 3:57pm

Well, Obama just voted yes and Hillary voted no, so why don't you get yourself a more original whipping girl?

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 4:00pm

Well, he certainly would not have taken this position before the primary ... the putz, the schmuck, the LIAR. Of course he probably would have just been absent, like his entire record in Chicago.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 6:04pm

Hillary kept her word to the progressive arm of the Democratic party.

Obama lied to the left and threw them under the bus.

Oh, well. I guess the right to privacy isn't important anymore.

Like protecting Roe v Wade isn't important anymore.

Like campaign financing isn't important anymore.

So many things that were always important don't seem to be important anymore.

It's hard to keep up.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 8:20pm

i decided today that i *am* gonna vote for McCain, because i know he will destroy america.

the sooner we bring this all to a head, the better.
Updated On: 7/9/08 at 08:20 PM

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 7/9/08 at 8:32pm

PJ, Roe allows govenment regulations during the last trimester. Obama supports the right of choice under Roe.

[javero]

Posted: 7/10/08 at 1:25pm

btw, the other L word, Libertarion Party, as weighed in on this topic. In a nutshell, the party prez nominee Bob Barr refers to Obama and McCain is Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dum. Text of the LP press release follow.

Obama had chance stand for liberty, but did not


The Libertarian Party says that Republicans and Democrats have failed the American people by allowing telecommunication companies complicit in the Bush administration's illegal wiretap program to go without punishment.

"Civil liberties were violated, and only 28 senators cared to see justice served," says Libertarian Party spokesperson Andrew Davis, "and Barack Obama was not one of them."

The Libertarian Party has repeatedly called for the rejection of any amendments to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that empowered the government to spy on American citizens and granted immunity to companies complicit in illegal surveillance operations.

"Barack Obama, as well as a number of Republicans and Democrats, failed to stand for liberty when he could have," says Davis. "To say that Democrats are more adept at protecting American civil liberties is a lie. Democrats are just as guilty, and have been nothing but a doormat to the Republican-lead assault on our Constitution. The only party left that stands consistently on the side of freedom and the Constitution is the Libertarian Party."

“I challenge Sen. Obama to represent real change by standing for the people’s liberties and against the administration’s unlawful surveillance program,” Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr said yesterday. “I call on Sen. Obama to oppose any measure that protects phone companies from liability for aiding illegal government spying. Those who violate the Constitution and the law, whether politicians or businessmen, should be held accountable for their actions.”

“When it comes to protecting the people’s fundamental liberties, Senators John McCain and Barack Obama are Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum,” observed Barr. “If Sen. Obama will not confront the Bush administration over years of lawless conduct, why is he running for president?”

Barr is now polling at 6 percent nationwide, and anticipates more support from former Obama supporters who are unhappy with the Democratic presidential nominee's support of the FISA amendments.

The Libertarian Party is America's third largest political party, founded in 1971 as an alternative to the two main political parties. You can find more information on the Libertarian Party by visiting www.LP.org. The Libertarian Party proudly stands for smaller government, lower taxes and more freedom.

For more information on this issue, or to arrange a media interview, please call Andrew Davis at [phone].

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 7/10/08 at 1:32pm

"Hillary kept her word to the progressive arm of the Democratic party."

You are delusional if you think this women would not have voted like Obama did if she had the nomination. Her entire voting record points to this. She has nothing to lose here...

Well one thing. This makes me feel like she didn't take the VP slot. That makes me rather sad.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 7/10/08 at 1:35pm

and if nothing else the fenchurch mpd collective knows all about delusional.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 7/10/08 at 1:42pm

Well your on the outside. What do you think Hillary would have done?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 7/10/08 at 1:57pm

she'd have voted the same way even if she was the nominee. the difference is that if she had been the nominee she'd have marshalled up enough support to filibuster it.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 7/10/08 at 2:00pm

"she'd have voted the same way even if she was the nominee. the difference is that if she had been the nominee she'd have marshalled up enough support to filibuster it."

Right. Why didn't she do that this time? Her voting record seem to indicate otherwise.