#26
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:21pm
Glad to finally have someone join me on my soapbox, Z. Marriage of any kind for anybody gives me bile.
#27
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:24pm
Hey SOMMS..can I tap dance on your soapbox? Thanks.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
#28
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:29pm
Seeing as my soapbox is about the size of the 42nd Street set, please join me. Step, ball, change.
#29
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:32pm
Jazz hands, bitches.
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#30
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:33pm
Let's shuffle off to buffalo. Look Matt_G...Jazz hands.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
#31
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:34pm
BIGGER! BIGGER!!
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#32
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:35pm
Matt_G likes big hands....
"Sir K, the Viscount of Uppity-shire...." -- kissmycookie
#34
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:38pm
and big tap shoes
"Sir K, the Viscount of Uppity-shire...." -- kissmycookie
#35
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:40pm
shuffle, ball change, shuffle, ball change...I like to kick him with these damn tap shoes. Keep smiling, shuffle, ball change, Jazz hands, smile....
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
#37
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:44pm
Finale???? We were just getting started Sam!
"Sir K, the Viscount of Uppity-shire...." -- kissmycookie
#38
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:46pm
Whew...and that completes SOMMS and Boobs, tap dance to gay marriage. Thank You to Matt_G, our tyrant choreographer.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
#40
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:48pm
shuffle, ball change, shuffle, ball change...I like to kick him with these damn tap shoes. Keep smiling, shuffle, ball change, Jazz hands, smile
"Sir K, the Viscount of Uppity-shire...." -- kissmycookie
#41
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:53pm
Thanks KMF for joing us and counting.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
#42
Posted: 8/31/04 at 2:58pm
DGrant, I understand all of your points but I have to repeat that religion has no place in American politics. This is exactly why our forefathers came to this country.
As soon as we start letting our religious dogma impact our government we are back on the same path. I also agree that the conservatives are just as happy to take the tax money of gay members of society and those are the things we have to bring up.
Hey you want to deny this segment of society their rights then you have no right to collect taxes from them to support YOUR social programs and big business.
As soon as we start letting our religious dogma impact our government we are back on the same path. I also agree that the conservatives are just as happy to take the tax money of gay members of society and those are the things we have to bring up.
Hey you want to deny this segment of society their rights then you have no right to collect taxes from them to support YOUR social programs and big business.
"Life is a lesson in humility"
#43
Posted: 8/31/04 at 3:09pm
SamIam - I was confused when I read your post, as it seemed to respond to a pro-religion standpoint on my part. Let me be clearer on where I stand. When I said the schism in the world was between those who follow religion and those that don't, I didn't mean to imply that I thought religion was a good thing. While I can understand contemplating the mysteries of the unkown and questioning whether there could be a uniting force and reason to it all, I in no way see it leading logically to the man-made institutions that we know as religion. In my lone view, the constricture of those institutions is what keeps us from moving forward as a social species. They are born, bred and draw their power from fear and ignorance - and increasingly demand that their participants deny the knowledge we gain as we move through time. As long as people let their fear of the unknown keep them blindly accepting what someone else tells them is the truth (despite all logic or reason,) then we cannot move out of our cycle of domination through intimidation.
#44
Posted: 8/31/04 at 3:34pm
You know what makes me want to vomit in MY mouth:
Gays who do not see that no matter what their personal views are of marriage, we should have the right available to us to do so.
I don't want to serve in the military--but I should have the right to. There are lots of things I don't care to do, never will do, but should have the right to do should I ever decide to.
I just don't see how a "whither marriage at all" argument belongs in the same box with "whither marriage for all Americans".
Gays who do not see that no matter what their personal views are of marriage, we should have the right available to us to do so.
I don't want to serve in the military--but I should have the right to. There are lots of things I don't care to do, never will do, but should have the right to do should I ever decide to.
I just don't see how a "whither marriage at all" argument belongs in the same box with "whither marriage for all Americans".
#46
Posted: 8/31/04 at 3:41pm
DGrant, I did understand what you were saying and was not trying to imply that your comments meant that you agreed with placing religion in the mix.
Was merely reiterating that, while I hear what you are saying about why people feel they should place religion in the decision process, I feel that it is wrong to do so.
Sorry if I seemed to be saying I thought YOU were in favor of religious interference with government.
Glad you agree but we have a bunch of people in the Christian hard right to convince :)
Was merely reiterating that, while I hear what you are saying about why people feel they should place religion in the decision process, I feel that it is wrong to do so.
Sorry if I seemed to be saying I thought YOU were in favor of religious interference with government.
Glad you agree but we have a bunch of people in the Christian hard right to convince :)
"Life is a lesson in humility"
#47
Posted: 8/31/04 at 3:45pm
jrb - Here's what I can tell you. If the only choice boils down to marriage for some or marriage for all, then I firmly believe in marriage for all. That boils down to a simple 'individual rights' issue. But in any discussion that involves the word marriage, I don't see why it's inappropriate to voice discontent with the whole concept in general. You act like me saying I don't believe in government sanctioned marriage is in some way saying I don't believe in gay rights. If the thread were about gay rights in general, then a comment about a position on general marriage would seem out of place. But when the discussion is distinctly about marriage, I think it's appropriate to bring up other aspects of that particular theme.
#48
Posted: 8/31/04 at 3:52pm
No, I see it as trying to argue gay marriage and polygamy at the same time--they are different discussions completely and one does not help the other.
Ultimately, what matters is that I hope that gays who do not believe in marriage at all are still fighting for the equality. Just as I pray that my Christian friends will support gay marriage from a legal pov despite their religious beliefs.
Ultimately, what matters is that I hope that gays who do not believe in marriage at all are still fighting for the equality. Just as I pray that my Christian friends will support gay marriage from a legal pov despite their religious beliefs.
#49
Posted: 8/31/04 at 4:04pm
d, you and that pie in the sky idealism of your utopian world of logic, respect and dignity have no place at this table, now just shoo!
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#50
Posted: 8/31/04 at 4:18pm
jrb - not really sure how you got polygamy into all of this, but that certainly isn't my point. My point about marriage in general has to do with government incentives for married individuals - it's an attempt to bribe people into living a particular form of lifestyle. The arguement being that it is society's best interest for people to be paired off, and so we should encourage that practice - using public funds and resources (and if you're looking for tie-ins to the topic at hand, there's another one - my money being used to support government policy I don't agree with.) I don't agree with that philosophy, so I don't think anyone should be paid off for living the way the govenment prefers - straight OR gay. But as I said, given the current condition of sanctioned and supported marriage, OF COURSE anyone should have that right. I think perhaps you might underestimate some reader's ability to make these distinctions.
And papa - I'll never give in
And I wouldn't want jrb to back off one bit - this is how we all have the opportunity to grow and learn - and it gives you time to lock-and-load.
And papa - I'll never give in
And I wouldn't want jrb to back off one bit - this is how we all have the opportunity to grow and learn - and it gives you time to lock-and-load.
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