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#51

gay marriage

Posted: 8/31/04 at 4:18pm

jrb - not really sure how you got polygamy into all of this, but that certainly isn't my point. My point about marriage in general has to do with government incentives for married individuals - it's an attempt to bribe people into living a particular form of lifestyle. The arguement being that it is society's best interest for people to be paired off, and so we should encourage that practice - using public funds and resources (and if you're looking for tie-ins to the topic at hand, there's another one - my money being used to support government policy I don't agree with.) I don't agree with that philosophy, so I don't think anyone should be paid off for living the way the govenment prefers - straight OR gay. But as I said, given the current condition of sanctioned and supported marriage, OF COURSE anyone should have that right. I think perhaps you might underestimate some reader's ability to make these distinctions.

And papa - I'll never give in

And I wouldn't want jrb to back off one bit - this is how we all have the opportunity to grow and learn - and it gives you time to lock-and-load.

#52

gay marriage

Posted: 8/31/04 at 4:21pm

intelligent men who read and think critically...straight people are pissed that you want to marry each other and not them...

when you grow up surrounded by willful ignorance you have to believe mercy has its own country and that it's round and borderless ~Animal, Ani Difranco

#53

gay marriage

Posted: 8/31/04 at 4:37pm

is this a problum in other contrees ? or just the US?

#54

gay marriage

Posted: 8/31/04 at 6:16pm

ok--I can see how it relates, d. But, marriage isn't going away anytime soon.

Most of the time, I hear the anti-marriage stance from gays and it just smells of apathy or/and disenfranchisment. The irony is this movement among people gay and straight to not marry at all. And, it is only through this inverse relationship that the religious right attempts to declare that gay marriage is responsible for the other--another point as to why the anti-marriage stance by gays irritates me a little. How does it really sell one's argument for equality when you are essentially giving the right want they want to hear: that you do not believe in the values of family and marriage?

johnraymondbarker.com

#55

gay marriage

Posted: 8/31/04 at 6:38pm

jrb - As much as I try to remain balanced and calm, it rankles a bit to have everything that's said crammed into one or the other categories. Simply being against the current administration should not mean one must automatically embrace Mr. Moore. And simply because I would like to enjoy individual freedom as a gay man does not mean that my fundamental Libertarian viewpoint on the governmental sanctioning of marriage should be invalidated.

#56

gay marriage

Posted: 8/31/04 at 6:57pm

I've read half the posts on this thread, but I don't want to interfere with any debates, so I'll just post what I think.

Marraige should be an option for everyone.

By the government's logic, if marriage between gays could be banned, couldn't we (hypothetically) ban others from marrying? I mean, couldn't they pass an amendment that says black people or jewish people couldn't get married? I'm not saying they ever will, but it makes no sense JUST to ban marriage between gays.

And, ugh, I hate how it's been labeled "gay marriage". It's just "marriage", it doesn't change depending on your lifestyle.

#57

gay marriage

Posted: 8/31/04 at 10:47pm

In my opinion:
Marriage is known to be the happiest day in many people's life. Should people be denied a certain happiness because of a sexual orientation? Nope. People are godd*mned people!!!

Rosencrantz: "Be happy - if you're not even HAPPY what's so good about surviving? We'll be all right. I suppose we just go on." - from Tom Stoppard's Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

#58

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 12:44am

mythus - not so long ago black people WEREN'T allowed to marry...

when you grow up surrounded by willful ignorance you have to believe mercy has its own country and that it's round and borderless ~Animal, Ani Difranco

#59

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 12:49am

And REALLY 'not too long ago' they weren't allowed to mary whites.

#60

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 12:56am

Right, and the idea now is that Blacks not to be able to marry eachother, or white people was unconstitutional so I have trouble with people here and elsewhere trying to find logic in banning gay marriage. I don't care how in denial people are, IT'S NOT CONSTITUTIONAL! Screw Religion. It should not be the basis for the laws we make, especially considering that many people don't believe in God at all.

Gypsy - Betty Buckley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUN5XoB5vFs&feature=youtu.be

#61

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 12:58am

Chi-Chi - apparently, there are some in the country who don't agree with you - or me.

#62

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 9:39am

sonofmamamiasam: You may not believe in marriage or feel it is necessary but I hope you aren't saying that you therefore think no one should get married.

That would be just as bad as the fundamentalist Christian right saying gays should not marry because THEY don't believe in their right to do so. The whole idea of freedom in this country hinges on equality for others no matter what they think or believe.

Passing a 'law' to support an individual's belief is dangerous and not at all in keeping with democracy.

"Life is a lesson in humility"

#63

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 9:45am

Unlike gender, age, disability, nationality, or race, sexual orientation is still something upon which governments can discriminate, legally. There's your difference.

#64

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 10:56am

the dirty little secret in all of this, well the not so dirty little secret, is that plum's point is quietly buttressed in the minds of both those who make laws and those who elect the law makers by the still accepted notion that sexual orientation is a choice. as long as that notion is still prevalent you will not be able to make any traction with the civil rights argument. not that scientific proof of a "gay gene" or some other proof would do anything to change the minds of those who discriminate, but as long as they can say that gender, age, disability, nationality and race are not chosen but that sexual orientation, at least that other than heterosexuality, is, they will continue to feel completely justified in their discrimination.

r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective

#65

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 10:59am

Please. If a gay gene is discovered, watch how quickly abortion becomes acceptable!

Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none

#66

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:01am

Not so fast, Namo.

There is an intermediate step: quarantine and isolation.

Stop worrying about what I'm doing -- focus instead on what you're eating.

#67

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:01am

Namo is right. Very sad. But my view on why we're gay has always been that it's just simple human population control. Easy as that.

"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."

#68

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:04am

ahh yesssss, the corky test would be joined by the willow test.

#69

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:06am

Willow test?

"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."

#70

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:12am

ok, so everybody's not a btvs fan, like me...we'll call it the smithers test instead.

#71

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:12am

Gotcha. I wasn't in my lesbian wican mode yet.

"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."

#72

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:15am

Matt G, will you marry me?

BroadwayWorld: A home for the dangerously unhinged

#73

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:17am

I thought you were after Jarico or something like that....

Stop worrying about what I'm doing -- focus instead on what you're eating.

#74

gay marriage

Posted: 9/1/04 at 9:48pm

well--religion is a choice.

johnraymondbarker.com

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