#26
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:18am
MAN I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU PEOPLE ARE STARTING THIS BULLSH!T AGAIN!!!
what's wrong with kristin? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 4/8/05 at 3:55am
I think this is an important discussion and if you look at the larger picture, I believe it honestly reflects the sad state of society in 2005. Gays protest against hate and then are labeled hateful, intolerant and anti-Christian for defending themselves, and not always turning the other cheek. How dare they!!! Don't they know they have to not stir things up..just remain complacent? It's no surprise that many believe the last election was won because the gay right wing organized themselves as a reaction to the gay marriage issue.
With the exception of ONE poster in this thread in fact, noone has said anything "hateful" against Kristin or Christianity. The fact remains that she participated in a show that blames gays for 9/11 and the downfall of society, among other things. Forget about equal rights, you don't have to read too much into Robertsons words to see that he wishes us dead. Apparently that doesn't matter at all..those hateful, intolerant gays are the anti-Christ!
Some people here actually believe that maybe she didn't know about what the show stands for. I really really really doubt it. Chenoweth is an intelligent devout Christian and I have a hard time believing she doesn't know who Pat Robertson is. Also, isn't it a little too coincidental that all of Kristin's tv appearances are listed on her website, but for some reason this one appearance was omitted???
It seems very obvious to me that Kristin was well aware that she would lose some of her gay fans, but she would stand to gain far more fans by appearing on the show. So she really doesn't care as long as she sells more records. Why is it so hard to understand how a gay fan would be disturbed by this?
And sorry Plum, but your comparison of the 700 club to the West Wing is beyond ludicrous to me. One show actively promotes the most vile form of hate ..the other doesn't.
With the exception of ONE poster in this thread in fact, noone has said anything "hateful" against Kristin or Christianity. The fact remains that she participated in a show that blames gays for 9/11 and the downfall of society, among other things. Forget about equal rights, you don't have to read too much into Robertsons words to see that he wishes us dead. Apparently that doesn't matter at all..those hateful, intolerant gays are the anti-Christ!
Some people here actually believe that maybe she didn't know about what the show stands for. I really really really doubt it. Chenoweth is an intelligent devout Christian and I have a hard time believing she doesn't know who Pat Robertson is. Also, isn't it a little too coincidental that all of Kristin's tv appearances are listed on her website, but for some reason this one appearance was omitted???
It seems very obvious to me that Kristin was well aware that she would lose some of her gay fans, but she would stand to gain far more fans by appearing on the show. So she really doesn't care as long as she sells more records. Why is it so hard to understand how a gay fan would be disturbed by this?
And sorry Plum, but your comparison of the 700 club to the West Wing is beyond ludicrous to me. One show actively promotes the most vile form of hate ..the other doesn't.
#28
And sorry Plum, but your comparison of the 700 club to the West Wing is beyond ludicrous to me. One show actively promotes the most vile form of hate ..the other doesn't.
But it is relevant if you think her appearing on the show has her indirectly supporting all the views of the show. If her appearing on the 700 Club means she supports the views and agendas of the show, then wouldn't her appearing on the West Wing do the same thing? I know one is a talk show while the other is scripted drama, but both shows do have a message they want to get across.
I undersand why you're angry Peter, but I also don't think it's fair that people start assuming all sorts of things about Chenoweth because she appeared on this show. Yes, I think Robertson is vile, but like it or not, the 700 club deals with a lot more issues than gays and lesbians and I'm sure not everyone who has appeared on the show or even ones who watch it agree with everything the show advocates. I would like to think Chenoweth is included.
Posted: 4/8/05 at 5:02am
And sorry Plum, but your comparison of the 700 club to the West Wing is beyond ludicrous to me. One show actively promotes the most vile form of hate ..the other doesn't.
But it is relevant if you think her appearing on the show has her indirectly supporting all the views of the show. If her appearing on the 700 Club means she supports the views and agendas of the show, then wouldn't her appearing on the West Wing do the same thing? I know one is a talk show while the other is scripted drama, but both shows do have a message they want to get across.
I undersand why you're angry Peter, but I also don't think it's fair that people start assuming all sorts of things about Chenoweth because she appeared on this show. Yes, I think Robertson is vile, but like it or not, the 700 club deals with a lot more issues than gays and lesbians and I'm sure not everyone who has appeared on the show or even ones who watch it agree with everything the show advocates. I would like to think Chenoweth is included.
"I've got to get me out of here
This place is full of dirty old men
And the navigators and their mappy maps
And moldy heads and pissing on sugar cubes
While you stare at your books."
#29
Posted: 4/8/05 at 6:12am
"But it is relevant if you think her appearing on the show has her supporting all the views of the show..."
Vietgirl, I don't think any of us have said or even implied that Kristin actually supports Pat Robertson's extreme gay views. Once again, we are pissed because we believe, with good cause, that she knew she would anger and lose some of her gay fans, but she really doesn't care. She would gain more fans than she would lose.
"I also don't think its fair that people start assuming all kinds of things about Chenoweth..." The only thing Im assuming is she knows who Pat Robertson is. Honestly, I don't believe Kristin, or any of her pr people are that uninformed. If she knows who Pat Robertson is, she knows HIS opinion of gays, who have formed a good percentage of her fan base. It had to occur to either Kristin or one of her team that this move would upset her gay fans. But she did it anyway to sell records. Also, the 700 club survives by donations. Kristin's appearance on the show helps fund their anti-gay agenda.
Vietgirl, I don't think any of us have said or even implied that Kristin actually supports Pat Robertson's extreme gay views. Once again, we are pissed because we believe, with good cause, that she knew she would anger and lose some of her gay fans, but she really doesn't care. She would gain more fans than she would lose.
"I also don't think its fair that people start assuming all kinds of things about Chenoweth..." The only thing Im assuming is she knows who Pat Robertson is. Honestly, I don't believe Kristin, or any of her pr people are that uninformed. If she knows who Pat Robertson is, she knows HIS opinion of gays, who have formed a good percentage of her fan base. It had to occur to either Kristin or one of her team that this move would upset her gay fans. But she did it anyway to sell records. Also, the 700 club survives by donations. Kristin's appearance on the show helps fund their anti-gay agenda.
#30
Posted: 4/8/05 at 8:02am
She had to have known she would piss people off, otherwise why leave off both of your websites?
And she had to have known that she was taking heat for it because at her CD signing she did damage control in saying how she was very much supportive of everyone. Much like the day before the inagural festivities she dropped out (I'm sorry, the venue wasn't appropriate isn't a good enough excuse). Much like I wonder if bringing up Rosie O'Donnell in her interview was calculated as well.
She's very shrewd in just getting herself out there to as many people as she can.
She pissed off the gay community by going on 700 Club.
She'll piss off the Christian's by playing a minister's lesbian wife in "Running With Scissors".
She just wants as much exposure as she can get. She doesn't want to be pigeon holed. Unfortunately people feel slighted on every corner. Which is why people are questioning her integrity. She presents herself in a certain way in the media, a chaste, virtuous Christian. But she dates a married man. I think Kristin is trying to figure out who she is and the choices she makes are being done in the public arena.
I don't think there's anything "wrong" with her. I just think she doesn't care about anything or anyone, just her career.
It's hard to understand what her actual views are because it all is so mapped out.
And she had to have known that she was taking heat for it because at her CD signing she did damage control in saying how she was very much supportive of everyone. Much like the day before the inagural festivities she dropped out (I'm sorry, the venue wasn't appropriate isn't a good enough excuse). Much like I wonder if bringing up Rosie O'Donnell in her interview was calculated as well.
She's very shrewd in just getting herself out there to as many people as she can.
She pissed off the gay community by going on 700 Club.
She'll piss off the Christian's by playing a minister's lesbian wife in "Running With Scissors".
She just wants as much exposure as she can get. She doesn't want to be pigeon holed. Unfortunately people feel slighted on every corner. Which is why people are questioning her integrity. She presents herself in a certain way in the media, a chaste, virtuous Christian. But she dates a married man. I think Kristin is trying to figure out who she is and the choices she makes are being done in the public arena.
I don't think there's anything "wrong" with her. I just think she doesn't care about anything or anyone, just her career.
It's hard to understand what her actual views are because it all is so mapped out.
#31
Posted: 4/8/05 at 9:13am
Hey I have a GREAT Idea!
Those that don't agree with Chenoweth's appearance on the 700 club just don't buy the album.
Those that don't give two-flying-you-know-what's please have a happy listening experience.
Those that don't agree with Chenoweth's appearance on the 700 club just don't buy the album.
Those that don't give two-flying-you-know-what's please have a happy listening experience.
#32
Posted: 4/8/05 at 10:06am
I don't think there's anything "wrong" with her. I just think she doesn't care about anything or anyone, just her career.
No one's seeing the contradiction here? No? Okay, must be me, then.
Contradictions aside, your whole mode of thinking is so black-and-white simplistic it's ridiculous. Not everyone defines their lives by gay rights issues, believe it or not. You can be perfectly gay-friendly and not make every decision according to those views. Go in one corner, you say. Make sure never to associate with anyone you disagree with. That way I can easily label you as "good" or "evil" and act accordingly. Is it any ****ing wonder conservatives and liberals sometimes feel like they're from different planets when it's considered bad form to even associate with each other?
Where does it end? Am I a homophobe because several of my best friends are Republicans? Am I dragging down the Democrats because I won't declare a party affiliation? Oh, here's a doozy- does the fact that I work with Habitat for Humanity mean I'm advocating Christianity? Or does it just mean that I want to build some frickin' affordable housing?
I don't know about you, but I live in the real world, where people have vastly different ideas about politics, religion, and just about everything else, but you work with them despite that fact. Or maybe because of it. I'm sure it's real fun for you to live in the isolated little liberal corner you've built for yourself, hearing only people who agree with you. I'll take some actual perspective, thanks.
No one's seeing the contradiction here? No? Okay, must be me, then.
Contradictions aside, your whole mode of thinking is so black-and-white simplistic it's ridiculous. Not everyone defines their lives by gay rights issues, believe it or not. You can be perfectly gay-friendly and not make every decision according to those views. Go in one corner, you say. Make sure never to associate with anyone you disagree with. That way I can easily label you as "good" or "evil" and act accordingly. Is it any ****ing wonder conservatives and liberals sometimes feel like they're from different planets when it's considered bad form to even associate with each other?
Where does it end? Am I a homophobe because several of my best friends are Republicans? Am I dragging down the Democrats because I won't declare a party affiliation? Oh, here's a doozy- does the fact that I work with Habitat for Humanity mean I'm advocating Christianity? Or does it just mean that I want to build some frickin' affordable housing?
I don't know about you, but I live in the real world, where people have vastly different ideas about politics, religion, and just about everything else, but you work with them despite that fact. Or maybe because of it. I'm sure it's real fun for you to live in the isolated little liberal corner you've built for yourself, hearing only people who agree with you. I'll take some actual perspective, thanks.
#33
Posted: 4/8/05 at 10:15am
I think that this topic has been beaten to death, but the whole point was put quite well by Peter:
"The 700 club survives by donations. Kristin's appearance on the show helps fund their anti-gay agenda."
That is a black- and-white statement. No grey area there.
"The 700 club survives by donations. Kristin's appearance on the show helps fund their anti-gay agenda."
That is a black- and-white statement. No grey area there.
"ubiquitous"
#34
Posted: 4/8/05 at 10:53am
Yeah, Plum. I gotta go with Andy Hardy on this one. I know you get all wrapped up the the whole thought process of studying constitutional law and such...which is beyond admirable. But saying things are grey is also a simplification to simply allow certain actions instead of addressing the underlying issues.
There is no black and white when it comes to the 700 CLUB. It has declared war (metaphorically) on gays and lesbians, as Pal Joey has pointed out with direct quotes in other threads (WHICH I WISH OTHER PEOPLE HAD READ BECAUSE MANY ELOQUENT ARGUMENTS WERE MADE ADVOCATING BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE).
It's honorable to want to see all sides of an issue. But sitting in the center of the scale, trying to keep the balance can bring about stasis.
There is no black and white when it comes to the 700 CLUB. It has declared war (metaphorically) on gays and lesbians, as Pal Joey has pointed out with direct quotes in other threads (WHICH I WISH OTHER PEOPLE HAD READ BECAUSE MANY ELOQUENT ARGUMENTS WERE MADE ADVOCATING BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE).
It's honorable to want to see all sides of an issue. But sitting in the center of the scale, trying to keep the balance can bring about stasis.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#35
Posted: 4/8/05 at 12:27pm
hmmm, bobby, you said.
I cannot support a performer who has such a large gay fan base but shows such utter disregard for that fan base by participating in organizations and political events that think her fan base is not a valid part of society.
as a gay man, I find the above statement pretty intolerant. Tolerance works both ways. She has a right to her beliefs, just as you do.
I cannot support a performer who has such a large gay fan base but shows such utter disregard for that fan base by participating in organizations and political events that think her fan base is not a valid part of society.
as a gay man, I find the above statement pretty intolerant. Tolerance works both ways. She has a right to her beliefs, just as you do.
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story...
AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
#36
Posted: 4/8/05 at 12:48pm
And I still contend that if it had been, oh I don't know...Raul Esparza appearing on The 700 Club, everyone would be scrambling for ways to rationalize it.
#37
Posted: 4/8/05 at 12:56pm
This is unbelievable. If she has not VOICED her views about homosexuality...then no one has a right to make speculation on what she believes based on a PUBLICITY appearance. She appeared on a television show. Whatever happened to the disclaimers...you know? Like..."this television program does not in any way reflect the opinions of the company." Why can't the same apply to individuals. She has never bashed the gay community. She may not THROW herself into it and wallow it, but she has NEVER turned her back on it. And no one can argue with that. And, in my own opinion, she seems to be one of those rare performers who perform because it is their LOVE. Not FOR her fans. Gay or straight. The end.
And, yes, I too am a homosexual. Before everyone starts saying that I don't understand.
And now that I go back and read this post...It sounds just as stupid and trite as the rest.
And, yes, I too am a homosexual. Before everyone starts saying that I don't understand.
And now that I go back and read this post...It sounds just as stupid and trite as the rest.
"Be not like dumb, driven cattle. Be a hero in the strife." A Psalm of Life...Walt Whitman
#38
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:01pm
'And I still contend that if it had been, oh I don't know...Raul Esparza appearing on The 700 Club, everyone would be scrambling for ways to rationalize it.'
BAD EXAMPLE. Chenoweth, I contend, made a pr goof. In the end, I understand the anger, but don't really think it's a HUGE deal. HOWEVER, for reasons known by many, Mr. Esparza appearing on the show would be tantamount to selling his soul to the devil.
BAD EXAMPLE. Chenoweth, I contend, made a pr goof. In the end, I understand the anger, but don't really think it's a HUGE deal. HOWEVER, for reasons known by many, Mr. Esparza appearing on the show would be tantamount to selling his soul to the devil.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#39
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:04pm
Plum that was great :)
"Be not like dumb, driven cattle. Be a hero in the strife." A Psalm of Life...Walt Whitman
#40
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:10pm
her disclaimer should be "as long as I get paid and attention, I'll go anywhere"
and if it wasn't a big deal, or she didn't think she'd offend anyone, why didn't she put the appearance up on either of her sites?
and if it wasn't a big deal, or she didn't think she'd offend anyone, why didn't she put the appearance up on either of her sites?
Updated On: 4/8/05 at 01:10 PM
#41
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:13pm
hehe, Spooky. I won't disagree with that. :)
"Be not like dumb, driven cattle. Be a hero in the strife." A Psalm of Life...Walt Whitman
#42
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:17pm
Very well then. Put in the popular performer of your choice. But you know what I meant.
#43
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:23pm
i've stayed quiet recently, but wanted to add that if Kristin had appeared on The David Duke Show (the KKK leader, if he still has a show) no one would question why people are upset--even if she truly loved all races and never made a racist comment in her life, and it was all a Public Relations move. It's sad that even on this website full of educated, cultured people, a double standard still exists.
'The Devil be hitting me!'--Whitney Houston
Updated On: 4/8/05 at 01:23 PM
#44
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:41pm
Plum,
I so HIGHLY disagree with you on this. Take ANY performer who has any sort of gay following and put them on the 700 CLUB and you would see an outcry.
I so HIGHLY disagree with you on this. Take ANY performer who has any sort of gay following and put them on the 700 CLUB and you would see an outcry.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#45
Posted: 4/8/05 at 1:47pm
I'm...ambivalent about what she did. I know I'm not happy about it. But I also know that to leap down her throat for appearing on a show that's actually pretty mainstream, if not a mainstream we approve of, would make me a hypocrite. Because I do work for Habitat even though I'm not Christian, and I support Israel even though I want a Palestinian state, and in a million other ways, I'm sure, I contradict myself every day. Look, my point is that I find it very difficult to fully condemn someone based on one thing like that, because a person is more complex than one television appearance, or even one opinion. Damn my soft, bleeding little heart.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm not getting her CD because I don't like Jesus music. Drives me up the wall- I even quit chorus in high school because I couldn't get used to singing liturgical music.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm not getting her CD because I don't like Jesus music. Drives me up the wall- I even quit chorus in high school because I couldn't get used to singing liturgical music.
#46
Posted: 4/8/05 at 2:01pm
As I've said repeatedly, I think it's much more a PR goof than anything else. I know she is an open-minded person with a good and expansive world view. But I also understand the anger. Personally, I'll reserve my truest anger for those who actually say terrible things about gay and lesbians (ie. Mel Gibson).
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#48
Posted: 4/8/05 at 2:17pm
Mel was a recent guest on the 700 Club too.
I think the saddest thing to come out of all of this is that I now know she's just a hypocrite. Basically going on a show just to sell some cd's because you need to cater to that particular crowd. It just sends a message that you just do whatever is necessary to advance your career and it doesn't matter who you step on. And I'm fine with that, it's what Hollywood is all about, just don't put your virtues in the media anymore then.
I think the saddest thing to come out of all of this is that I now know she's just a hypocrite. Basically going on a show just to sell some cd's because you need to cater to that particular crowd. It just sends a message that you just do whatever is necessary to advance your career and it doesn't matter who you step on. And I'm fine with that, it's what Hollywood is all about, just don't put your virtues in the media anymore then.
#49
Posted: 4/8/05 at 2:21pm
Oh, come now, hypocrasy is the name of the game when you're a performer. You pimp yourself out to the highest bidder (and sometimes the lowest).
Kristin is truly just the latest in a long line of people selling their soul for their "art."
That it happens to be on a TV show which I used to watch and which is, I feel, a brainwashing tool for evil only makes me disappointed in her, but she's not much different than any other performer.
***Edit***
Let me disclaim that for a second. I don't mean to imply that every performer has no scruples or morals. But, watch anyone on a rise to fame and you'll see those scruples and morals falling by the wayside.
Kristin is truly just the latest in a long line of people selling their soul for their "art."
That it happens to be on a TV show which I used to watch and which is, I feel, a brainwashing tool for evil only makes me disappointed in her, but she's not much different than any other performer.
***Edit***
Let me disclaim that for a second. I don't mean to imply that every performer has no scruples or morals. But, watch anyone on a rise to fame and you'll see those scruples and morals falling by the wayside.
Updated On: 4/8/05 at 02:21 PM
#50
Posted: 4/8/05 at 2:31pm
CHARLEY
Also, even if it's a smash, folks,
(to Frank)
Doesn't that mean we sell out?
JOE
Well, I hope we sell out —
CHARLEY
What I mean is sell out —
Well, you know —
Success is like failure,
It's how you perceive it,
It's what you do with it,
Not how you achieve it
Also, even if it's a smash, folks,
(to Frank)
Doesn't that mean we sell out?
JOE
Well, I hope we sell out —
CHARLEY
What I mean is sell out —
Well, you know —
Success is like failure,
It's how you perceive it,
It's what you do with it,
Not how you achieve it
I sing for myself. I sing when I want, whenever I want to, just for me. I sing for my own pleasure. Do you understand that?
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