1991 tony's question.

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1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 5:20am

so my big question is the big four musicals up that year:
miss saigon, the secret garden, once on this island and the will rogers follies.

now i can understand that the secret garden won best book. but really, score AND musical to the will rogers follies? this seems to be an extraordinarily strong year for musicals and the fact that that show one and that the other three (three far superior shows) is just unbelievable to me. all the acting awards went 3 to miss saigon and one to the secret garden.

was the will rogers follies that much better? i can't even imagine it. maybe someone will enlighten me?

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 7:20am

I did not see ONCE ON THIS ISLAND (I wish I had), but I did see the others, and of those 3, WILL ROGERS was my favorite. It was the most fun, to me.

scooter3843

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 10:56am

I agree it was the "most fun" but not the best musical!

"Judy Garland, Jimmy Dean, You tragedy Queen" ~ Taboo

"Watching a frat boy realize just what he put his d!ck in...ex's getting std's...schadenfruede" ~ Ave Q

"when dangers near, exploit their fear" ~ Reefer Madness the Musical

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 11:01am

I disagree. At the time, I thought Miss Saigon and Once On This Island were screwed BIG TIME. I didn't like WRF initally. Now, I understand why WRF won. The score is, in my opinion, the best of the four. It's a lot of fun too. I wish it would come back.

"What the hell happened to you? You look like a Make-A-Wish Kid. You know, I just knew you were gonna bring shame on this new family of ours, and it just figures you had to go make yourself over into some heroin-shootin skate board chic on the only day E! could interview you!" - Cherry Cherry, on her daughter Mary Cherry

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 11:11am

I wished that there would have been won of the rare ties at the Tony's that year and that Cathy Rigby tied Lea Solonga for the Tony. BTW how old was Lea then and now???

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 1:04pm

Trying to figure out the Tony's is well...impossible. There are numerous reasons why Cy Coleman's score/show beat out Saigon, Island, Garden. First, British back-lash for Saigon. The performers weren't punished, but the show didn't "need" to win anything. It was a big hit and everyone knew it would run for years. Island was a gorgeous show with a wonderful score and cast. But it is a niche market show that would've had trouble on the road. Tough to market even with a Tony. Garden is also gorgeous and I can't justify its not taking more. Will Rogers' Follies was an American festival put together and celebrating the American creme of theatre (Coleman, Stone, Comden & Green, Tune, and Rogers himself). I'm sure it was blast to see even if its not engrossing theatre. Besides Sweet Charity, I bet this is Coleman's most produced title (sadly when he wrote so many wonderful things) because of its American rah-rah.
Just my 2 cents.

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 1:26pm

I can't answer for the Tonys, but I can tell you that during that time period Keith Carradine had the reputation that Hugh Jackman has today.

I think the Tony voters bought into the hype. Saigon was a British import, Island was a sleeper hit, and Garden's music was from somone outside the Broadway community. WRF was pure Broadway and written by Broadway royalty.

I (guiltily) say that I have seen the other three shows and own the cast recordings. But I have never seen or listened to WRF.

If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 1:27pm

I agree with JB singer and I also think WRF deserved it. I was sorta young at the time of seeing 3 of the 4 shows that season (didn't see Island). I thought Saigon was completely robbed at the time, but now think that WRF was honestly just superior as a production. Saigon's music construction is mediocre at best, while the WRF score was constructed beautifully. There are too many ballads in Garden, and it was a snore for me at a younger age (Luker is always a snore anyway). But I'm sure WRF just slightly edged out Saigon is the end. The American classic story prevailed, and justifiably so.

But I won't live alone in a house of regret.

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 2:29pm

My understanding is that at the time Broadway purists were getting sick of the "British invasion," and I guess the Tony voters wanted to give the reward to an American musical.

#10

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 2:37pm

If they were sick of the "British Invasion", they should have given the award to THE SECRET GARDEN or ONCE ON THIS ISLAND, both by American composers, and both a thousand times better than WILL ROGERS FOLLIES.

I myself would have given it to SECRET GARDEN.

#11

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 2:44pm

MISS SAIGON should have won. THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES has a delightful score and is a wonderful cd......Carradine was most engaging as Will Rogers and there were two or three exciting dance numbers. Other than that, THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES was dreadfully boring.........For some reason, I think I have found every show that Tommy Tune has directed dreadfully boring, each and every one. But again, my affection for THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES grew after being terribly bored by the show, but buying the cd and greatly enjoying listening to it.

MISS SAIGON was the best musical that year and I wish it had won the Tony.

"Blow out the candles Robert and make a wish. Want something, want SOMETHING."

#12

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 2:47pm

Sometimes I think that Tony voters are just so head-over-heels for Tommy Tune that they'll give anything he's involved with an award.

#13

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 2:53pm

I have not seen WRF. It seems that it is rarely produced and does not get much attention.

#14

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 2:54pm

brdlwyr, You are correct........Simply look at the list of the amazing Cy Coleman's credits and you will see shows produced with MUCH GREATER FREQUENCY than THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES.

"Blow out the candles Robert and make a wish. Want something, want SOMETHING."

#15

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:03pm

I saw all four. Bored to tears by "Garden" but did like a couple songs. Miss Saigon was "the Musical about a Helicopter". It seems the mood of the board now is much more reverential, but I remember it as a punch line to a million theatre jokes at the time. "Once on This Island" was a lovely show and I liked it a lot. It was also pretty slight as a musical goes.

"Will Rogers Follies" was the favorite. Keith Carradine was riding high, profiled repeatedly in the national media. The "Favorite Son" number brought down the house at the Tonys. (I'd say the only number to get a bigger ovation was "and I'm Tellign You" from Dreamgirls.) I don't recall anyone being surprised at the time that it won.

I guess if nothing else it shows you how time (and repeated listening to the cast recording) can alter the reputation of a show.

Margo, your thoughts?

#16

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:06pm

I think WRF is rarely produced because it's one of those shows that needs to be done BIG. The only song I like from that show is "No Man Left For Me"...great torch song for Dee Hoty as the forgotten wife.

"Y'all have a GRAND day now"

#17

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:06pm

It was the best musical. I found Will Rogers to be extraordinary and unique. A perfect theatre going experience.

The truly beautiful should be lawfully restricted from wearing clothing; and the truly butt-ugly should be lawfully mandated from going naked.

#18

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:12pm

If you prefer spectacle over substance, WRF is your show. Sadly, I feel that the Tonys are rarely given to the shows that deserve them anymore.

#19

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:18pm

I actually enjoyed WRF most out of those choices. I found SECRET GARDEN boring, and MISS SAIGON was good, but missing something for me.

Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson

#20

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:19pm

JoeKv99 - I am fairly certain that Druly Lane Oak Brook did a production about 7-8 years ago. I did not see it, but remember at number at the Jeff Awards.

I would also like to see read Margo's thoughts.

#21

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:55pm

To say Will Rogers Follies was style over substance is to overlook the entire content of its book. There was quite a bit of substance within all those flashy production numbers that contained Rogers' bio, his philosophies, the economic climate of the period and its effects on theatre, the decline of vaudeville, politics, etc. I enjoyed all four of the shows, but I never would have chosen Will Rogers Follies as the winner if I hadn't actually seen it. It most definitely deserved the Tony for Best Musical that year. I have no idea how it could have been found boring, but I guess it happens. It was a fun flashy throwback to an era that was almost completely forgotten mixed with the life of an influential American figure and staged in an opulent lavish sumptuous production. Every piece of the production fit so well together to create a nostalgic yet innovative and unique piece of American musical theatre. I found it absolutely thrilling and moving. I consider it to ba a staple of American musical theatre. The other nominees were great shows in their own right, but they simply did not have the enormous creative vision, seamless collaboration and flawless execution that was to be found in The Will Rogers Follies. There hasn't been an original show in the classic vein of musical theatre that has come close to it since then.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#22

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 4:08pm

Joekv99, sorry, but I don't really grasp how anyone who actually saw MISS SAIGON could call it "the musical about the helicopter."

That sequence was only a few seconds, was not very important, and the show would have thrilled the millions of people who saw MISS SAIGON without it. I don't know anyone who has actually seen MISS SAIGON who talks about the "helicopter sequence," it is one of the least memorable moments of the show.

It is often used to say negative things about MISS SAIGON as "the chandelier falling," is often used for negative comments about PHANTOM.

Sorry, but THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES was very boring, for the most part, ONSTAGE. Again, the cast recording is great. MISS SAIGON was rivetting and thrilling ONSTAGE from the moment it started.

Often folks confuse affection for a recording with actual memories of what took place onstage.

If you saw MISS SAIGON and refer to is as "the musical about the helicopter," I STRONGLY recommend you consider seeing MISS SAIGON again someday. I suspect you might fall in love with it as millions of others have.

MISS SAIGON did not have a Broadway run 3 or four times the length of the run of THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES because of a special effect.

I do not know what made THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES so boring at The Palace Theater. I do love the score and hope to see a new production someday. The "Hooray for Our Greatest Son" number where they do the "sit and dance" thing has had wide exposure on television.....It is indeed the best staged number from the show, and I can see folks drawing conclusions from seeing this number performed on television, that the show must have been great. It was not.

"Blow out the candles Robert and make a wish. Want something, want SOMETHING."

#23

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 4:09pm

brdlwyr - the Marriot Linconshire did WRF in 1996/1997.

#24

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 4:50pm

I remember being surprised and disappointed that THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES won Best Musical over MISS SAIGON. And then I saw THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES and was totally won over by it. I still love MISS SAIGON (and I even like THE SECRET GARDEN more), but the best musical won Best Musical.

#25

re: 1991 tony's question.

Posted: 2/15/05 at 4:56pm

Wish, obviously we had different experiences, but I can tell you, the helicopter did indeed get the majority of the press. I did not mean to say that the helicopter the only thing of merit in the show;I think that the perception that it was the "Show about the helicopter" did indeed hurt it's chances. I am old and my memory may be playing tricks on me, but as I recall, the helicopter was mentioned in every single review. That said, i think the score is beautiful and was not taken seriously enough. I was merely trying to recreat the moment to explain why it was easily dismissed at that time.

As for "Will Rogers Follies" being better on disc (And Boring!?)-- goodness gracious I don't think I could disagree more! A wonderful cast, startling choreography, rope tricks, dog acts, sets galore, dazzling costumes....it was seen as a spectacle beyond compare back in the day!

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