A Black Eliza Doolittle — Page 2

There 100% were upper class, wealthy, cultured, black people in that day and age. Immigration has always been a thing, trade has always been a thing, they may not have been the default but it is certainly not impossible, or even improbably, that a black or otherwise poc Eliza would be accepted as upper class.

(And while it's tangental to the point, poisonivy2, while Alexander Hamilton was an immigrant from the Caribbean he was white. His father was from Scotland and his mother was Dutch. Their parentage are also recorded, they were both white as well)

I feel like there's some discrepancy regarding the topic...

Some folks are talking about changing Eliza Doolittle (the character) to be a woman of color when portrayed by an actress of color, and others are speaking about the character being played by a woman of color (color-blind casting). Those are two very different options.

Can an actress of color play the role? Of course! (I would also have loved to have seen/heard Audra McDonald in the role.)

Should the character be changed to be a woman color when portrayed by an actress of color (in regards to this show, as scripted)? I don't think so.

I'm not a woman of color, but just based on some of the comments posted here (some observant, some patently false), I think that changing the character could be viewed as offensive.

John Adams said: "I feel like there's some discrepancy regarding the topic...

Some folks are talking about changing Eliza Doolittle (the character) to be a woman of color when portrayed by anactress of color, and others are speaking about the character being played by a woman of color (color-blind casting). Those are two very different options.

Can an actress of color play the role? Of course! (I would also have loved to have seen/heard Audra McDonald in the role.)

Should the character be changed to be a woman color when portrayed by an actress of color (in regards to this show, as scripted)? I don't think so.

I'm not a woman of color, but just based on some of the comments posted here (some observant, some patently false), I think that changingthe charactercould be viewed as offensive."



I'd be curious to know if you found my comments "observant" or "patently false," and if it's the latter, I'd love to hear your reasons.

I agree it's important to note that distinction in this conversation. As I said, my perspective is coming from having seen this brilliant production of Pygmalion, where the race of the character was changed very effectively. Maybe the same could be done in My Fair lady with a Black woman, or maybe not. And certainly if it were done poorly, it could absolutely be offensive. But having seen that production of Pygmalion, I'm inclined to say in can be done, but only by a smart director and a smart actress.

But even if you're right, and it couldn't/shouldn't be done, I think there is a middle ground between changing the race of the character, and ignoring the actress' race entirely. And I think it's important to find that middle ground, because it's very difficult in our society to ignore race entirely.

I think Great Comet is a good example. Many refer to it as "color blind" casting, but if you read Dave Malloy's notes on the lyrics, you'll see he was very much aware of Denee's race in the role. The main example I'm thinking of is how they agonized over whether the line about her being Anatole's "slave" should be kept in or not, given the potentially offensive implications of having those words spoken by a Black actress onstage, regardless of whether we are meant to see the character as Black.

And especially with a story like My Fair Lady, which deals with class and language in such complex ways, I think it would be misguided to try to completely ignore race when a WOC is playing Eliza.

poisonivy2 wrote: "Alexander Hamilton was also able to "pass.""

Alexander Hamilton was lily-white, with a Scots father and a French-Anglo mother. He didn't "pass," he "was." He also spent most of his youth being raised by, or in the protection of, relatively wealthy white property owners.

It's been noted before, but this is a very dismaying aspect of the success of Hamilton - entertaining as it is, it isn't history, but many audience members seem to think that it is, and believe that they've learned some historical facts.

newintown said: "poisonivy2 wrote: "Alexander Hamilton was also able to "pass.""

Alexander Hamilton was lily-white, with a Scots father and a French-Anglo mother. He didn't "pass," he "was." He also spent most of his youth being raised by, or in the protection of, relatively wealthy white property owners.

It's been noted before, but this is a very dismaying aspect of the success ofHamilton- entertaining as it is, it isn't history, but many audience members seem to think that it is, and believe that they've learned some historical facts."

Actually if you read the Chernow biography his dad is of questionable origin and in his lifetime there were plenty of racial slurs thrown out there against him, including from John and Abigail Adams.

But what about the contemporary slurs against him?

John Adams called him a "creole bastard" which suggests that he might have looked mixed-race.

Abigail Adams went even further: " a vain, ambitious man aspiring to govern when it was his duty to submit."

Granted these two people did not like Hamilton but in that day and age I doubt they'd make slurs about his race unless they had evidence.

I think a good teacher, yeah this is America...I know, would use the musical Hamilton as a catalyst to have a deeper discussion about historical accuracy and what really happened. I know that's a pretty common teaching tool that is used when people read biographies or watch movies/TV versions of historical events.