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#1

A mischievous thought...

Jerry Herman's comments about giving up at the top of his game and not writing a few shows that don't even get put on. Is this a subtle dig at Sondheim perhaps?

Updated On: 6/9/09 at 06:05 AM

#2

re: A mischievous thought...

Herman writes, conventional Broadway shows, crowd pleasers that entertain and do well. He is to be applauded and lauded for that. His popular shows will stand the test of time.

Sondheim isn't about that he strives to push boundaries and musically deal with themes that challenge and entertain.

Their approach to writing shows is heavily influenced by the subject matter that each is dealing with.

If it weren't for Sondheim would Jason Robert Brown, William Finn and the other enfants of musical theatre have found a voice in th commercial world. Indeed, "Next To Normal" is a classic piece of Sondheim musical theatre, dealing with the more mundane truth's of society and dysfunctional families.

There most definitely is a place in our culture for both and one is not better than the other possibly its more about the commercial value of one over the other.

The most successful commercial hits for Sondheim have been when he is writing lyrics "West Side Story" and "Gypsy" both of which have had commercial outings/successes on Broadway either now or in the past year. Herman is represented in London by "La Gage..".

#3

re: A mischievous thought...

I'm Sondheim all the way
Jesus Loves You... Everybody else thinks you're an idiot!
#4

re: A mischievous thought...

It wouldn't be the first time Herman's taken digs at Sondheim, but you also have history proving him right: how often does a composer with a hit show (or series of them) turn out three or four less than stellar works before disappearing into obscurity? Most of them.
#5

re: A mischievous thought...

I love Jerry Herman and his shows. They scream Broadway and Musical Theatre and what people see Broadway and musicals to be.

He is the godfather of the showtune and will always be.

His shows and music will alway sbe about - weather ever proffesionally ever revived in there entirity successfully is yet to be known but his music will always live on and for a composer thats all that matters

I just hope producers can find away of reviving this terrific shows - they define musical theatre!
#9

re: A mischievous thought...

Didn't he slag off Sondheim when he won the Tony for La Cage Aux Folles beating Sunday in the Park With George? I respect both Sondheim and Jerry Herman but they are polar opposites and neither are immunes from having flops.

#10

re: A mischievous thought...

During Herman's acceptance speech of the Best Score Tony for La Cage he saluted the "simple hummable showtune". Some took this remark as a insult directed at Sondheim's score of Sunday in the Park, but over the years Herman was profusely defended his comment as not an insult, just a remark about the growth and development of musical theatre.

Updated On: 6/9/09 at 11:33 AM

#11

re: A mischievous thought...

He has... Bea Arthur (RIP) made a funny joke saying
"I starred in my very first leading role in Jerry Hermans musical VERA ... Oh wait, no its wasn't called Vera, nothing could rhyme with Vera, Jerry said... Sondheim could have rhymed it!"
#12

re: A mischievous thought...

"giving up at the top of his game and not writing a few shows that don't even get put on."

If anything, that applies more to Kander & Ebb than Sondheim. Just about everything the latter has written has been staged or recorded at some point. Whereas I understand there are quite a few K&E shows that are still in the trunk whilst others (Curtains, The Visit) have been produced a long time after they were written and some time after Mr Ebb's passing.

But do we really need to speculate? I love all the Broadway third generation and don't see any need to choose between them.
#13

re: A mischievous thought...

As I said, I was just being mischievous. (Thanks for the clarification on the bitch-slap, Mama).

I think K&E's latter works have thrown up very interesting material- I loved Spiderwoman, (Mama were you at the Shaftesbury at the time?), Curtains was a joyous evening- I could have gone straight back and seen it again- and having chosen Gypsy instead I bitterly regret not having done so! The Visit recording sounds magnificent. I wish there was a visual recording of it somewhere...

Anyway, anyone else think that Jerry Herman looks distinctly unwell?

PS I love La Cage, enjoy Dear World and am OK with Mame, so I'm no Herman-hater usually
#14

re: A mischievous thought...

I bet he has a whole closet of unheard shows.
One of his unstaged shows I love is 'Miss Spectacular'.
Originally written to be staged at one the huge Vegas hotels like a good old fashioned Vegas spectacular sadly it never happened.
A great concept CD is available with a brilliant cast.
re: A mischievous thought...

Updated On: 6/9/09 at 01:52 PM

#15

re: A mischievous thought...

Sorry Dev - I wasn't trying to be catty. And I'm not in my next statement either - just making an observation...

"you also have history proving him right: how often does a composer with a hit show (or series of them) turn out three or four less than stellar works before disappearing into obscurity?"

That could have applied to Herman himself as La Cage was a bit of an Indian summer for him. He hadn't had a hit on Broadway for 18 years prior to that and, whilst I love the scores for all three of them, M&M, Dear World and The Grand Tour could otherwise have been his three shows into obscurity...
#16

re: A mischievous thought...

Miss Spectacular looks a very interesting idea.

Actually I don't agree that the age of the tunesmith is dead. I think Hairspray absolutely follows in that tradition- funny book, great stand alone songs, upbeat feel-good sentiment.

It just needs a strong production, (the current G&D is a case in point- no matter how strong the material, a poor staging will kill it)

Go on, gives us one more good-time show!
#17

re: A mischievous thought...

Hairspray and tunesmith seem to me to be an oxymoron. One of the most blandly boring scores I've ever heard. And the book was to me not even remotely funny - very contrived humour that made me yawn rather than laugh. I actually saw the Menier staging of La Cage the day after I saw Hairspray at rthe Shaftesbury and I remember thinking that thjere was more genuine wit in the first ten minutes of the La Cage Book than in the entire two and a half hours of Hairspray. And more melody in any one song chosen at random from Herman's score than in the entire Shaiman songbook.(now I'll run away before all the Hairpspray lovers start chasing me LOL.)

THEATRE 2020: CURTAINS**** LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE GIRLS***** WICKED***** KEITH RAMSAY TAKING NOTES WITH EDWARD SECKERSON***** KAYLEIGH MCKNIGHT CONCERT***** RAGS***** ON MCQUILLAN'S HILL** DEAR EVAN HANSEN***** THE JURY***

Updated On: 6/9/09 at 08:17 PM

#18

re: A mischievous thought...

*puts on running shoes and starts to stretch*

i'll give you a 20second head start bob...

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