AN OPEN LETTER TO THEATREGOERS EVERYWHERE- Page 2

[Plum]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 1:58pm

Problem there is, I doubt any producer is going to let anyone shy of the IRS go that deeply into his/her/their accounting.

They don't necessarily have to release all numbers to the public (that's asking for a bit much), but they might want to try a neutral third party or negotiator, at least. I'm just saying that we can't take the producers (or Equity, for that matter) at their word with no evidence.

I don't trust theater producers any more than baseball owners in union negotiations when they cry poverty. Just read the work of the late Doug Pappas and you'll know what I mean.
Doug Pappas' Business of Baseball Pages Updated On: 7/7/04 at 01:58 PM

[localonecrew]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:01pm

" that attitudes all around are killing this industry"

this industry is making more money than ever and there are shows lined up to come into town. the producers will cry poverty until the end of time in order to get concessions. the same people produce shows over and over because they make money. they dont do it for the love of theater as the weisslers prove. some do love theater and want it to be vibrant but if they werent making money they wouldnt do it.

[etoile]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:07pm

Dear Lord, I would ask someone to explain how they arrived at this conclusion, but I don't think they could do it intelligently:

" But this guy just sounds like a bitter gay man with his panties in a wad."

[sean martin]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:11pm

>> the same people produce shows over and over because they make money

And actors perform in them for exactly the same reason, bud. :) Hell, if someone told me I could design a revival of GREASE that was gonna run for a decade, I wouldn't turn it down. Would you? Honestly?

[Dawg]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:14pm

The argument here though is that actors are fighting for a liveable wage and benefits, No actor is in theatre because they are going to become rich doing it...the same cannot be said about many producers.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:15pm

If there were no producers, the actors wouldn't be getting paid to act, now, would they? Maybe actors should try producing and see how much FUN it is - NOT.

[Dawg]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:17pm

oh dear Lord, there's an intelligent argument. And if you don't agree with me...I'm going to take my ball and go home!

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:18pm

It's just that the producer-bashing is old and predictable. Poor, poor mistreated actors, and dictatorial, Herculean producers. Get over it.

[JamieMcG]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:18pm

I find producing to be a lot of fun :)

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:21pm

Producing IS a lot of fun, Jamie. I agree. Unfortunately, I don't have the connections to do it on a professional level - I have worked for producers and have produced benefits. It can be lots of fun. But it's also a lot of work, which no one on these boards ever seems to want to acknowledge. They see the producers as sitting with their feet on their desks, smoking cigars, and spending four days a week at their Hampton estates while maintaining mansion-like apartments in the city. Some do - but they are rare and worked hard to get there.

[Dawg]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:23pm

Come on now though...seriously...The Producers have nearly always had the upper hand. They have the money and they make the decisions. If there weren't a union of actors arguing here, do you really think the producers would voluntarily say "Awww, you all deserve a liveable wage and luxuries like health insurance?" I highly doubt it. If it were up to the producers, I can nearly guarantee that all the tours and most of the Broadway shows would be peopled by actors making close to nothing.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:25pm

And if it were up to the owners of most businesses in this country, it would be the same - do you think most business owners would just voluntarily pay a living wage and insurance if there weren't laws forcing them to? - the producers are running businesses like everyone else. Not evil villains (well some are but that's a different thread..).

[JamieMcG]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:29pm

Of course I agree it's a lot of work and Producers I have worked with would all argue that they are not in it for the money. But I also must admit as someone who does both, most of the producers I know have it far better off than the actors I know.

But on the other hand (I feel like Tevye), should the amount of money you make me comparable to the amount of work you do? Why should someone playing Peggy Sawyer on Broadway and someone playing Peggy Sawyer on the road make such hugely differing salaries?

I'm stirring the pot on an already very hot topic...but just thought I'd throw that topic out there.

The Producers are clearly looking out for their own best intereste, wouldn't you? They want the shows to be financially successful and the actors want to be paid what they feel they should be paid for their work. Seems like a bit of an impasse to me. We'll see what happens in negotiations.

Unfortunately, a strike may be the only answer, despite the fact that it will cripple the industry and the city's economy for as long as it lasts.

[sean martin]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 2:36pm

>> Seems like a bit of an impasse to me

... coupled, unfortunately, with a lot of fingerpointing all around, which isn't helping the situation either. I really hope they can get it worked out.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 3:12pm

"But I also must admit as someone who does both, most of the producers I know have it far better off than the actors I know. "

Right. Brings me right back to business owners. Aren't your bosses, company owners, better off than you, the workers? That's America, people.

And back to "Producers forget that most of the time a show doesnt last 15 years and we have to go find other work."
No, they don't "forget" that - it's their income as well. When a show closes, they lose a large source of income as well. People in the offices suffer too - jobs are lost there, salaries are cut. Producers have to go out and find shows and investors just like actors have to go out and find and audition for roles. And if a show is a flop, they end up OWING money, and most of the time losing investors for the next show.

Updated On: 7/7/04 at 03:12 PM

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 3:40pm

Thanks a bunch Dawg!

[Dawg]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 4:08pm

for what?

[Karma76]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 4:31pm

"Actors would struggle for years, paying their dues, to get their Equity cards and join the ranks of the top-notch professionals. The idea was that not just anyone could be in a big Broadway show."



This statement is the main thing that jumped out at me in the open letter. THAT is crap!! You have people who HAVE payed their dues, but and this is no offense to any of these people but some celebs (not all some have paid dues) that come out and decide....I think i want to do some Broadway today...and it happens for them. Where is the justice there??? People who have been working hard and ARE good, yet try to work there way up to get into equity. No offense but why should they NOT go for non equity (I am NOT saying it is right) BUT there are non-equity tours that I see these people on broadway now. I mean so it can help discover new untapped talent. I understand your view point but equity does not make you an automatic amazing actor. sometimes people do get to break into equity for various reasons and are lucky. Talented people not in equity try just as hard and hope they too will be able to pay their dues to the AEA! Updated On: 7/7/04 at 04:31 PM

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 4:32pm

I loved the open letter. Thanks for posting

[Corine2]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 5:58pm

Updated On: 7/7/04 at 05:58 PM

[shesings]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 6:11pm

I hope the representatives from Equity participating in nagotiations aren't using this letter as the basis for their argument, because quite frankly I wouldn't be inclined to deal with them. It is so self-riteous to think that all Equity actors are better and have worked harder than the rest of us. No not self-riteous. Uneducated. Some people are just lucky, or unlucky for that matter. It just is an argument that is going to offend so many actors out there. Let's get more benefits for Equity. Everyone wants that for them. But lets not ostracize the non-eq actors in the process!

[Dawg]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 6:15pm

"This is a REVOLUTION DAMMIT! We're going to have to offend SOMEbody!"

-John Adams, 1776 Updated On: 7/7/04 at 06:15 PM

[sean martin]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 6:18pm

You're saying Equity is revolting?

I imagine some would agree. :)

[Dawg]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 6:24pm

For someone not even IN New York, you certainly are opinionated about what goes on here.

[DefyingGravity2]

Posted: 7/7/04 at 6:33pm

"Are we not entitled to the same kind of lifestyle that everyone else in the world strives for???"

Listen comrade, ain't no one here that wants to hear your tired, lefty, Pinko whining. That philosophy has been disproved ages ago--it doesn't work in politics nor does it work in the arts, i.e. the theater.

You may not like producers as a rule but face the facts, without these "greedy" producers none of you whining queens would have a job on the boards. Easy to test this theory, just GO OUT AND PRODUCE YOUR OWN UNION PLAY OR MUSICAL! Why don't you do it? Not because you can't but because you think (erroneously) that you are too good to do anything but read a few lines from a work that SOMEONE ELSE has written and then get paid huge sums for the "effort". Yeah, whatever.

The thing that bugs you the most is that industrious young men and women are busting their humps to do what they love be it act, sing, whatever. You fear them because they don't waste time sitting on "commitees" but rather they pound the pavement and make opportunities. They takes classes and put on their own small productions and toil by the sweat of their brows to make it. But where is your precious union at this time of their lives? Hmm? I'd love to hear how the union helps aspiring actors, etc. Is it by one of the many, many, many union authorized and sanctioned and funded classes that is out there?--the classes that are offered to help these future union dues payers??? Yeah, the union is doing what it can to increase membership by being there for people at the point in their careers when they most dearly need it. And if you believe that I've got this sweet bridge that's nearby that I'd like to sell ya.

Did your precious union ever pay your rent? Put food on your table? Paid for your headshots? No, but they were there to take your money in exchange for the grovelling honor of finally attaining membership, huh mate?

Bottom line my sad, communist friend is that the day of the union, be it in theater or the automotive industry is dead! It will never be back because it is no longer a necessary evil. The theater isn't a sweatshop environment and your comment about rehearsals sans break is ridiculous. I'd laugh if I heard of some queen being "worked" to death at some play rehearsal. Truly, that is comedic.

As for non-equity touring shows, I say more power to them! The fact that you think there is some great conspiracy in the producer's ranks to get more profit by paying less truly shows your complete ignorance of reality. Well duh! Ever take an economics course (not including that one you took from Marx)? Of course they are going to try to maximize profit, that's how our relatively free market works, genius. This isn't a crime or even unethical. It is the free exchange of goods and services. No one is required to work in a touring cast. No one is beaten and fed gruel (unless they are in the revival of "Oliver", but I digress . I know plenty of people who are in non-equity touring casts and they aren't exactly starving to death nor do they have problems paying mortgages and making car payments. But then again, these are people who have worked hard at learning their craft (and their abilities oft surpass those of any equity actor)and they didn't waste time whining about how hard it is to be an actor. They went out and paid their dues and did what had to be done. I don't think a single one ever wasted time chairing a commitee though. There's your answer if you care to be self-honest enough to see it.

Now go back to your Fellow Travellers Pity Party and cry in your cheap, European beer, cuz baby, ain't no one here wants to hear your cryin'!