And no one shall make them afraid. They'll be safe in the nation we made.
And no one shall make them afraid. They'll be safe in the nation we made.
#1And no one shall make them afraid. They'll be safe in the nation we made.
Posted: 5/25/18 at 8:24pm
I'd like to have a discussion about one of the lyrics in Hamilton. As great as the songs are, no other song touches me more than ONE LAST TIME. The lyrics I'm referring to are:
George Washington: Like the scripture says:
“Everyone shall sit under their own vine and fig tree
And no one shall make them afraid.”
They’ll be safe in the nation we’ve made
I wanna sit under my own vine and fig tree
A moment alone in the shade
At home in this nation we’ve made
One last time
Christopher Jackson has done such a full and beautiful portrayal of George Washington. Which is why these lyrics gutted me when I heard them for the first time. The obvious ambiance of them struck me so hard and haunt me. Out of all the great lyrics in Hamilton, I think about these every day.
The hypocrisy of George Washington saying words like "no one shall make them afraid. They'll be safe in the nation we made" while knowing African Americans were enslaved and tortured. He believed everyone should be able to sit under their own tree in peace, perhaps he did not want to think about the torture and enslavement going on in America at that time.
I would love to get everyone's opinion about the profoundness of those particular lyrics and Washington's complacence of kicking the issue of slavery down the road for someone else to fix.
I remember how I felt in the theater watching Christopher Jackson an African american man singing those words and how Hamilton the show really comes full circle for people of color in this country.
After George Washington sang those lyrics I couldn't help but think "Why couldn't you have done more? You believed everyone should revel in the nation that has been made and be in peace. What about ALL the people."
It's an issue I grapple with every time I listen to Hamilton (which I'm sure is the point of the song). I know Christopher Jackson struggled with the external and internal ideology of George Washington too. I'd like to know how others felt when hearing those lyrics.
BroadwayConcierge
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/24/15
#2One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 5/25/18 at 8:32pm
I'm really intrigued by your thoughts (and thanks for sharing them!). The inclusion of those lines is indeed both gorgeous and disconcerting.
I think it's worth noting (and I think the creators of Hamilton have said this time and again) that the people being remembered in this show were people of a certain time—not that that makes their actions any more or less excusable. Yet in hindsight, it's also important to recognize that at the same time these founders were holding slaves, they were also literally writing the language and laying down the bedrock that would, albeit decades later, lead to emancipation. Your description of "One Last Time" representing a "full circle" I think is totally astute. Hamilton certainly doesn't shy away from the morally reprehensible activities of these characters (see "We know who's really doing the planting" ), but it would be too easy to vilify and demonize these people without honoring the work they ultimately did. It's just one small part of why I think the show is such a layered masterpiece.
#3One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 5/25/18 at 9:01pm
Thank you for your wonderful analysis. I'm a history major so I love to dig deep into historical texts and notes and while I've always known Washington used this particular biblical scripture, It had never struck me the way it did until I saw Hamilton. My jaw was honestly on the floor when hearing these particular lyrics. Not out of outrage but just out of the moment and the significance of it all. I believe my eyes got watery at one point. Alot of conflicting emotions for that particular point in the show.
George Washington is perceived in so many different ways depending on what continent you live on and where you came from and what your ancestry is. Native Americans and African Americans may look at George Washington with very different eyes than others.
The constant struggle of my emotions for George Washington makes me remember how History is so powerful. If you let it, it opens the world up just a bit, as we can trace historical figures's actions and use them as a guide to figure out what's right and what's wrong. We can trace their mistakes and learn from them, or just keep making the same mistakes over and over. History certainly has an eye on all of us.
Rainah
Broadway Star Joined: 11/24/16
#4One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 5/25/18 at 9:22pm
The more powerful moment is, I think, actually in the final number.
Washington steps forward as Eliza sings "I raise funds in DC for the Washington monument (She tells my story!)"
And then she sings "I speak out against slavery - you could have done so much more if you only had time" and Washington bows his head to her, in shame and in respect for how she spoke out when he failed to do so. It was Jackson's choice, if I remember correctly, and it's such a moving moment. In that moment, Eliza is better than America's first president, because she spoke out.
#5One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 5/25/18 at 9:49pm
That's a beautiful moment as well. Thank you for bringing it up. Yes I did hear it was Christopher Jackson's choice to do that and what a great choice it was. On the character of Eliza, I've always found her to be the heart of the whole show. She's the glue that holds it all together. Phillipa Soo was masterful in her interpretation of Eliza. It's the one lead role in the show that is not very flashy and the character has so many subtle and genuine moments throughout the show that pay off in a big way at the end of the show. I think the character is definitely one of the more trickier roles to play.
One of the themes of Hamilton ( in my opinion) is that the women are stronger than the men in almost every way. Ironically of course knowing the roles women had to play in the 1700s especially during the war.
#6One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:46pm
RicardoMagon said: "That's a beautiful moment as well. Thank you for bringing it up. Yes I did hear it was Christopher Jackson's choice to do that and what a great choice it was. On the character of Eliza, I've always found her to be the heart of the whole show. She's the glue that holds it all together. Phillipa Soo was masterful in her interpretation of Eliza. It's the one lead role in the show that is not very flashy and the character has so many subtle and genuine moments throughout the show that pay off in a big way at the end of the show. I think the character is definitely one of the more trickier roles to play.
One of the themes of Hamilton ( in my opinion) is that the women are stronger than the men in almost every way. Ironically of course knowing the roles women had to play in the 1700s especially during the war."
Because the show is called “Hamilton,” in a way Eliza is a title character.
artist2
Swing Joined: 5/26/18
#8One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 5/28/18 at 10:19am
RicardoMagon said: "On the character of Eliza, I've always found her to be the heart of the whole show. She's the glue that holds it all together. Phillipa Soo was masterful in her interpretation of Eliza. It's the one lead role in the show that is not very flashy and the character has so many subtle and genuine moments throughout the show that pay off in a big way at the end of the show. I think the character is definitely one of the more trickier roles to play."
Absolutely, all of this.
BrodyFosse123
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/27/06
#10One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 6/2/18 at 8:34pm
Bumping this thread for Hogan because I'd like his thoughts on the topic. But also because I've been thinking about this issue and I don't think I see George Washington as an American Hero from my perspective.
George Washington did not treat his slaves well. Making them work in harsh conditions, though overall George Washington had conflicting feelings about slavery (he'd never admit that publicly however). Eventually he decided that slavery would need to end to save America but that didn't stop him from punishing slaves who tried to escape.
Though during the revolutionary war when slaves did escape, sometimes they went over to the british side for safety. The British had outlawed slavery at that point and refused to give slaves back to their owners because of fear that the slaves would be executed. Which makes me question who I should be rooting for during this war........nonetheless George Washington never fought to get the slaves back, which explains his conflicting feelings for slavery.
In the end, he just kicked the can down the road. It was someone else's problem....
Can I also say that starting now I won't be referring to slaves as "slaves" anymore. They weren't slaves. They were enslaved people. Calling them slaves rips them of their integrity and their life.
#11One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 6/3/18 at 11:23am
Few would deny that Washington was the greatest of the Founding Fathers. As a history major, I assume that you have actually read Chernow's Hamilton and perhaps McCullough's 1776 and gotten your knowledge of Washington from them. Washington had little to no personal ambition and was continually dragged away from Mount Vernon to lead the pitiful Revolutionary army, to chair the Constitutional Convention, to be the first, precedent-setting President and then again to run for re-election.
He had no role in the filthy political campaigns of thoses times. There is some controversy about how he treated his slaves, but on his death he freed all the slaves that he had the legal power to free and set aside a fund to care for the elderly and children. OK. The latter not at all justifying the slave ownership.
If I were looking for an overrated Founding Father, I think that I would look in the direction of Monticello.
The slave-owning plantation owners needed their slaves to survive, or so they felt. Put yourself in their position. To voluntarily, by freeing the slaves, lose their land, wealth, status. Can you be sure that you would have done so when there were so many rationalizations for slavery around to choose from?
It's also a mistake to blame just the South for slavery. The northern economies were not dependent on slavery, yet many of them retained slavery until well into the 19th century. New York and New Jersey, for example. After slavery was abolished, the northern states continued to practice segregation and discrimination for another hundred years.
More to the point, the North's participation in the slave trade brought great wealth to many northerners and the areas surrounding them. I can't rank slave trading, where hundreds of African Americans were imprisoned under terrible conditions in the holds of ships, to be less evil than owning the slave.
The slave trade in particular was dominated by the northern maritime industry. Rhode Island alone was responsible for half of all U.S. slave voyages. James DeWolf may have been the biggest slave traders in U.S. history, but there were many others involved.
http://www.tracingcenter.org/resources/background/northern-involvement-in-the-slave-trade/
I don't mean to diminish the significance of that quotation from Washington and the guilt that it throws on him. But I do mean to defend Washington a bit for his relationship to slavery compared to his peers. Slavery was a very complex institution. Even the great Emancipation Proclamation was largely a cynical political document. Slavery was abolished in the South, to help Lincoln in the coming election with the Abolitionists, but slavery was retained in the Union slave states of Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and Kentucky to help Lincoln win those states.
#12One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 6/3/18 at 1:08pm
OlBlueEyes said: "Few would deny that Washington was the greatest of the Founding Fathers. As a history major, I assume that you have actually read Chernow's Hamiltonand perhaps McCullough's 1776and gotten your knowledge of Washington from them. Washington had little to no personal ambition and was continually dragged away from Mount Vernon to lead the pitiful Revolutionary army, to chair the Constitutional Convention, to be the first, precedent-setting President and then again to run for re-election.
He had no role in the filthy political campaigns of thoses times. There is some controversy about how he treated his slaves, but on his death he freed all the slaves that he had the legal power to free and set aside a fund to care for the elderly and children. OK. The latter not at all justifying the slave ownership.
If I were looking for an overrated Founding Father, I think that I would look in the direction of Monticello.
The slave-owning plantation owners needed their slaves to survive, or so they felt. Put yourself in their position. To voluntarily, by freeing the slaves, lose their land, wealth, status. Can you be sure that you would have done so when there were so many rationalizations for slavery around to choose from?
It's also a mistake to blame just the South for slavery. The northern economies were not dependent on slavery, yetmany of them retained slavery until well into the 19th century. New York and New Jersey, for example. After slavery was abolished, the northern states continued to practice segregation and discrimination for another hundred years.
More to the point, the North's participation in the slave trade brought great wealth to many northerners and the areas surrounding them. I can't rank slave trading, where hundreds of African Americans were imprisoned under terrible conditions in the holds of ships, to be less evil than owning the slave.
The slave trade in particular was dominated by the northern maritime industry. Rhode Island alone was responsible for half of all U.S. slave voyages. James DeWolfmay have been the biggest slave traders in U.S. history, but there were many others involved.
http://www.tracingcenter.org/resources/background/northern-involvement-in-the-slave-trade/
I don't mean to diminish the significance of that quotation from Washington and the guilt that it throws on him. But I do mean to defend Washington a bit for his relationship to slavery compared to his peers. Slavery was a very complex institution. Even the great Emancipation Proclamation was largely a cynical political document. Slavery was abolished in the South, to help Lincoln in the coming election with the Abolitionists, but slavery was retained in the Union slave states of Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and Kentucky to help Lincoln win those states."
I have read both books. I won't put myself in the slave holders position. I actually think you have to put yourself in the enslaved people's position. Many African Americans ( and Mexicans) fought in the revolutionary war to defeat the British, even though the Americans were carving and torturing African Americans. The people enslaved who did escape went over to the British side because they knew the British wouldn't harm them.
I think you have to look at this war through the eyes of people of color in this instance. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were heroes for white people I'm sure. But my ancestors weren't Americans at that time. We were the "other". We didn't get to shine in the glory of "Freedom for America". When George Washington sings: no one shall make them afraid. they'll be safe in the nation we made.
He's not talking about everyone. One thing I don't think people understand is, when people sit down at a performance of HAMILTON, African Americans and Hispanics are seeing a completely different show than what white attendees are seeing.
America looks at figures like George Washington and Hamilton and Jefferson with rose colored glasses on. It's a bit more complicated for people who look like me.
I also think you're simplifying Washington's relationship with slavery. It is true Washington wanted his slaves free when he died, but it has also been mentioned by historians that he had no problem watching them be whipped.
#13One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 6/3/18 at 2:56pm
Oh, I agree with you. Washington should be no hero to you and this war was not your war.
As a military leader, though, Washington was used to seeing men harshly punished. He could be harsh. The British officer Major John Andres who conspired with Benedict Arnold to turn over the West Point military academy to the British was caught and sentenced to be hung as a spy. He implored Washington that he be shot like a soldier instead of hung like a spy. Many asked Washington to spare him, but the General did not want to appear weak, so Andres was hung.
If I had lived in that era I think that I would probably have been a loyalist. The British soldiers sent to America to fight the Revolutionary War found most Americans living better than they did. Abundant land and food. Wealth through trade. The British treasury was low on funds from all the European wars. They had had to spend a lot of money to defend the colonies in what we call the French and Indian War. They thought that the colonists should pay a tax to reimburse them in part for what it had cost to defend them.
This has always seemed pretty reasonable to me. Revolutions down through history have usually occurred because a tyrannical government was throwing men into dungeons for writing a column condemning the government or executing them for stealing a horse. A revolution over the imposition of a modest tax has always seemed odd to me.
But Washington could not have done much about slavery even if he had wanted to try. It was too well established and too many fortunes depended on it. It took the bloodiest war in our history to end slavery in rivers of blood and large heaps of amputated limbs. Many thought that the Civil War was punishment for slavery, and many still do.
#14One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 6/3/18 at 8:29pm
I've always thought Andres and Benedict have interesting parallels in history. When Andres was found out to be a spy, he gained a cult following from the Americans. American soldiers thought he was the definition of a gentleman and emulated what they would call "bravery" even though they knew full well he was a spy. On the flip side, they reacted much more negatively to Benedict's betrayal. The handsome British spy is more beloved than the american Benedict lol I've always thought that was interesting. I also think Benedict Arnold is one of the most interesting figures in all of american history. Alot has been written about him but not much theater or art has been about him which is sad
Back to Washington, It is said he didn't do anything about slavery because he wouldn't have gotten the support and the nation was already very fragile at the time because of the war. I'll never forgive him for kicking it down the can. I don't have it in me to make excuses for him or anyone in that time period who did nothing. But I digress.
You brought up the civil war. To this day, it still has such a hold on america. People see it as many different things. Some see it as a redemption epic, some as an origins of the modern states. There's so much to analyze.
#15One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 6/3/18 at 9:45pm
I was thinking about this discussion when I listened to this thoughtful piece from “On the Media”, a weekly show produced by WNYC-FM.
http://www.wnycstudios.org/story/on-the-media-2018-06-01/
It compares how Germany has dealt with Nazism and the Holocaust with how the USA has dealt with slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow, the Civil Rights movement, and institutional racism. It’s ~50 minutes long and well worth a listen.
#16One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 6/4/18 at 3:48am
Back to Washington, It is said he didn't do anything about slavery because he wouldn't have gotten the support and the nation was already very fragile at the time because of the war.
Respectfully, Washington would not have cared if you forgave him. He did not seek forgiveness. He was a man of his time, a man of action. He accomplished great things but sought no public acclaim or honors. He was not a god and could not take apart slavery even if he wanted to. The time was not yet ripe.
Benedict Arnold, it has been said, if he had not turned traitor over frustration with the lack of recognition of all he had done, would have been proclaimed the second greatest hero of the Revolution after Washington.
In school in the sixties and seventies we were only taught Arnold the traitor. Not a word about Arnold who captured Fort Ticonderoga, paving the way for its artillery to be hauled all the way to Boston where it would force the evacuation of the British from Boston. The hero of Saratoga, the turning point of the war because it brought in the French. I know you know all this and more. We have read many of the same books.
History is my favorite reading subject, coming in just before the novels of Henry James and Jane Austen. But history by historians trained to search for the truth in so far as they are able. History in the hands of those who seek to abuse it by using it to support their own current politically motivated use is abysmal and is the cause of the conservatives seeking to cut funding for public broadcasting.
#17One last time from Hamilton
Posted: 6/4/18 at 7:09am
I think that at this point in the narrative Washington is saying he's tired and needs to rest, Lin put it beautifully.
Stephanatic
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