Any Pure Motives in Sweeney Todd?

[My Strongest Suit]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 2:23pm

My friend and I were discussing this the other day and I was just wondering what you guys thought.

Does anyone in Sweeney Todd have pure motives?

Here's what I think: Anthony is the only one. He is in love with Joanna (however quickly it might have happened) and he wants to take her away from her "captivity" and marry her. Joanna is a close second but I think she would marry anyone who could take her away from Judge Turpin.

thoughts?

[tazber]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 2:31pm

Aren't everyone's motives pure to them?
To Sweeney, his revenge is righteuos. Nothing is more pure than justice.

[raphael06]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 2:33pm

Tazber's right. First, everyone has to agree on the terms and definition of "pure"... but is it not all debatable when examined from various perspectives?

[scott68]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 2:37pm

Justice, relatively pure. Revenge... not so much.

And really, I'm not sure how pure lust at first sight is, so Anthony's semi-obsessive crush on Johanna, a girl he doesn't even know anything about besides the fact that she's pretty, isn't exactly pure in my mind. I don't think I'd call any of their motives entirely pure, which isn't exactly surprising in Sondheim.

[It's All Good]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 2:46pm

Revenge is Justice. That's a semantical issue much like "fair" and "equal." Also, I want to agree with Tazber--everyone's motives are pure, with the exception of the Judge ( bc really its hard to justify lusting after your adoptive daughter), what is "impure" is the method they employ to act on these motivations..

[beyondblessed]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 3:34pm

The Begger Woman,
yea, she was crazy but just wanted to help, she know all along she recongnized Sweeny and needed him to listen to her. She just wanted someone to listen but the crazy kept sneaking back in on her. I feel like her motives were pure.

[KQuill]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 4:11pm

I think that if Anthony's intentions are pure because, whatever it be based on, he is in love with her and just wants to be with her. If his intention was just to bang her, that'd be a different story...

[Weez]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 4:16pm

Anthony decides he's in love with Johanna before they've even had a conversation. They decide to marry each other before Johanna knows his name. If that's actual real love, then I'm ... something I'm blatantly not. Witty and erudite, that'll do. To fall in love that quickly with so little interaction can surely only be lust.

I'm with the "no pure motives" thing. As the Beggar Woman is mad, I'd argue that she doesn't actually have any motives, which is why she just spews forth whatever goes through her mind, no matter how random.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 4:51pm

I totally thought you meant musical motives

[KQuill]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 4:54pm

So then Marius and Cosette are also based in lust?

[mattonstage]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 5:18pm

The Beggar Woman is pure, just driven mad by Judge Turpin's rape.

On a side note: With the whole Judge Turpin lusting after his adopted daughter, did anyone think of Woody Allen for the role?

[My Strongest Suit]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 5:51pm

^ that's a good one! :)

[roquat]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 11:38pm

****************SPOILERS*********************

The Beggar Woman and Toby are the only real innocents in the world of "Sweeney Todd"--and a lot of good it does them. The Beggar Woman, through her ravaged mind, has (I think), a vague memory of home and happiness, and she wants to get back to that world--ironically, she achieves her goal (she is reunited with her husband in their old home, with her daughter hidden nearby) at the cost of her life. Toby only wants to worship at Mrs. Lovett's feet, but his naivete about her (and about the world) destroys him.

Johanna may seem an image of purity and innocence, but she learns damn quick how to survive in this world (it's her fast thinking and trigger finger that saves her and Anthony from Fogg's Asylum, for instance). This is something that usually gets obscured in the bubbly-bimbo way most actresses play the role.

[ashbash1990]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 11:48pm

I think Sweeney's motivs are pure...He was a good, honest man whose life has been ruined and family destroyed, he was left only with his revolting neighbor... I think anybody whould want revenge... I would...

[jspaeth87]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 12:41am

i agree that toby and beggar woman were the only one's with truly pure motives....oddly enough those 2 were clearly not all there in the mind as well....coincidence?

[RockabyeHamlet]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 1:00am

"The Beggar Woman and Toby are the only real innocents in the world of "Sweeney Todd"--and a lot of good it does them. The Beggar Woman, through her ravaged mind, has (I think), a vague memory of home and happiness, and she wants to get back to that world--ironically, she achieves her goal (she is reunited with her husband in their old home, with her daughter hidden nearby) at the cost of her life. "

- I think she has more thrn a vague memory. Actually, I think it was vague right up until she stepped into her old home. The beggar woman's lullaby, and her motions inside the home seem to suggest that.

[Urban]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 7:47am

Oddly I have also discussed this show at length with a friend.

Basically we both though Mrs. Lovett was the only really evil one (everybody else to some degree did have excuses). She was the only one to jump wholeheartedly into something evil and monterous just so she good get her rocks off.

[Weez]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 7:50am

I don't think she made pies to get her rocks off, that was just because she was obviously completely disturbed in the nut.

Also, Judge Turpin and Beadle Bamford aren't exactly not-evil. Bear in mind they did abuse their power to send Sweeney away just so they could rape his wife.

[Urban]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 7:57am

Yeah, I proberly over simplified what I meant (argh I am tired), but we could easily relate alot of the worse stuff back to her as well.

Maybe I talk about it more in length when I am less tired. Sorry

[tazber]

Posted: 2/20/07 at 8:23am

I agree with Urban that Mrs. Lovett is the most monstrous character. She exploits Todd's desire for revenge, and well, she cooks people.
But to her, she is doind what she needs to bring her happiness (Sweeney). To her, this is a pure objective

[Urban]

Posted: 2/21/07 at 6:43am

Oooh good point. Good and evil are so interwinably linked.

God, I love this show.