Any word on a RAGTIME revival recording?

[tim10086]

Posted: 11/6/09 at 8:32pm

Hi all,

Forgive me if this has been discussed, I searched but found nothing.

Just wondered if there is an rumour about the release of a new Ragtime recording?

Cheers,
Tim

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/6/09 at 8:42pm

would be VERY expensive to produce but a nice thing to have. Ditto FINIAN'S RAINBOW

[bway1261]

Posted: 11/6/09 at 8:47pm

I really hope they record one, but I haven't heard or read anything about it.
Updated On: 11/6/09 at 08:47 PM

[Dagobert]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 1:02am

I think MB is correct...too expensive to consider right now...if it is a big hit...of course that could change.

[DRSisLove]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 1:06am

Someone asked Kate Baldwin at the stage door last night and she said that Finian's is in talks, however they don't have funding yet. She then asked the man if he had a million dollars that he'd like to donate to make a CD.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 10:57am

I highly doubt RAGTIME recording would happen. From my understanding, there are no new songs and the orchestrations aren't THAT much different. They would only do a recording to capture the new voices.

While it would be nice to have, I doubt it'll happen.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 11:32am

A revival recording is being discussed/negotiated. Probably a single disc, but it looks like it may happen.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 11:48am

Fabulous news, if it comes to fruition.

[winston89]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 1:26pm

Michael Bennett, I feel like your comments for a Ragtime cast recording can be said for any cast recording being made. Considering that that kind of recording has only a small audience and is not a type of music that is popular to the masses. So, with that regard any cast recording would be nice but very expensive to make.

[bwaylvsong]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 3:28pm

Can someone please explain why it's THAT expensive to make a recording?
I'm sure Ragtime's would recoop just by the amount they would sell in the theatre. Even if it actually does oost 1 million, they would only need to sell 50,000 copies at $20 a piece to make it back. Last week, 11,352 seats were sold. If 5% of the audience buys the album, that's 568 albums sold per week. That would mean it would have to run 88 weeks to recoop the album, which is less then two years, and is a pretty reasonable run estimate for a show like Ragtime.

[trombonist]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 3:50pm

And the last time you saw a recording for only $20 at the theater was... I've never seen anything lower than $25 at least recently.

Personally, without significant changes to the orchestrations, I'd rather stick with the OBCR I have already.

[winston89]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 3:57pm

bwaylvsong, the run estimate of Ragtime really wouldn't matter. Due to the fact that this time next year, the show is going to either have to close or move. Keep in mind that they took the Neil Simon realizing that they are just going to be a place holder till Love Never Dies. Webber, did say that he is willing to pay fifty per cent of the moving costs just so that he can get the theatre of choice he wants for his show.

[bwaylvsong]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 3:58pm

Ok, then you just made my argument even better! 70 weeks!

Edit: Winston, what makes you say Webber has his heart set on the Simon and won't take a different house if it's available? Isn't 50% of the moving costs a lot to spend on something that probably won't really affect his show at all? Updated On: 11/7/09 at 03:58 PM

[trombonist]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 3:59pm

I suspect you're grossly overestimating the number of people who buy the CD at the theater. I could be wrong, but I don't see a lot of them going out when I go to shows.

[bwaylvsong]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 4:04pm

Well, I actually thought 5% would be about right for this show, since it's one of the handful of shows I can think of that would make the audience think "OMG I need the CD now!"

[trombonist]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 4:09pm

I don't know, I gave in and saw it last night, and honestly? I don't really want any of it on recording as nothing's an improvement on the original imho. Plus with so many people traveling with their computers, instant downloading is a lot more likely.

[singer73192]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 4:10pm

I don't know. I might venture to say that CDs are one of the most popular items sold. When I was standing in front of the Ragtime merch. stand the other night at least 5 people came up in those 5 minutes asking if a CD was on sale.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 4:10pm

Winston, my thoughts here are expressly based on the size of the cast, orchestra and the score for RAGTIME, which are larger than most musicals in general and definitely larger than most recent revivals, and thereby would be even more expensive than most shows to produce a recording of. Since there are already two recordings of the show - it seems fairly unlikely unless this production simply proves an enormous hit.

[phantomvegas2]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 4:17pm

There WILL be a recording coming out! It comes out Spring 2010, so said the merchandise clerk and the gentleman who plays Coalhouse. I even ordered one last night.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 6:03pm

I was just listening to podcast i saved from 2004 that had Brian Drutman (Decca), Bill Rosenfield (formerly of RCA Victor) and Kurt Deutsch (SH-k-Boom/Ghostlight)discussing just this very matter.

It's astounding how it all ads up.

First the entire cast get 1 week's salary for each 8-hour day in studio.

The orchestra is paid for four sessions of which only 15 minutes of music per session can be used. (a 75 minute CD requires a 5th session be paid for EVEN if they get all the material done in 4 sessions.)

The orchestrator is paid his/her entire fee a 2nd time for the recording. Same with the copyists.

The Stage manager (an important figure at the session) gets his weekly salary.

In addition there is studio rental, the salaries of the record producer and engineers, sound editors/mixers, graphic designers, along with production of the CD and promotion. For a large show it can mean $400 to $500 thousand.

The labels can no longer justify paying for these albums up front which is why more and more show producers are paying to get the albums done. It really is a valuable promotional tool. (More on this below.)

On the sales side, at the time of this interview WICKED had been out almost a year year and sold 250,000 units which was considered phenomenal. It had just eclipsed HAIRSPRAY in sales. AVENUE Q which had been out a few months longer had sold about 65,000. Now, given that Q was a smaller cast and smaller show to translate to CD, RCA was quite happy with that. At this point in time THE LAST FIVE YEARShad sold 35,000 copies, mostly on teh strength of the show's afterlife.

These producers all stated that sales at the theater are a significant factor. They estimate 10% of the people seeing the show each night will buy the CD at the theatre. After a show closes teh number of weekly copies sold plummets. (Look at the Billboard weekly cast albums charts...almost every title there is a current show. Of this week's chart only SPRING AWAKENING and CHESS are not currently playing.)

They commented that none of them could name a flop show that had been a hit album but many hit shows do not translate into hit albums. Rosenfield said that THE FULL MONTY was a show that did not sell albums relative to its success. He says the album broke even but did do nearly as well as expected.

Added to this that the labels would write off the capital expenses of the the album after 2 years. This is fascinating. The labels do not value the long catalog lives of these albums. (Decca is still selling thousands of copies of OKLAHOMA! every year after more than 65 years, it may well be the best-selling cast album ever if you add together the sales of the original 78-RPM album, the various LP incarnations and it's 3 legitimate CD releases plus many other CD's now that the records are public domain in some parts of the world.) But that is not important to the label managements. They want pop albums albums where they will spend $1 million on a CD that sells 8 million units in 2 years then falls out of favour. They are non interested in spending $500,000 on a cast album that might possibly sell 1 million copies over 10 years. The turn-around on that expense is too long.

Now, even if the label theoretically writes off the album costs in 2 years the books on that disc are not closed because once an cast album recoups its costs, the label and the show producers take a 60/40 split on any money it makes and that stays in effect as long as the item is in the catalogs.

It's a great interview, and I don't even remember how it came to me. I just saved it a few years back.

Things have changed since then.

More and more the show producers are including the cast album cost in their budget. (What's another $500K when they are spending $10 to $15 million on the show.) So it bodes well for new musicals, but revivals are trickier because in most cases there are already recordings out there.

Ghost light did HAIR even though they had recorded the all-star concert version a few years prior (both are still in print.) With RAGTIME, RCA still has both the single CD of highlights with the Toronto cast and the 2-CD complete recording with the Broadway cast available. These are both modern digital recordings so the sound quality is fine. It leaves the question as to whether any of the revival stars have CD selling power.

FINIAN'S RAINBOW is more likely to get a CD because of the reviews and because the most recent cast recording is of the off-Broadway revival with just piano accompaniment. The previous Broadway cast album is the 1960 revival which is early-stereo period and sounds fine but not at the level of modern digital recordings.

As much as all of us would love to have every new show and revival recorded, it really does not make economic sense.

[tim10086]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 6:18pm

Thanks for all that info, FWC2!

But HOW the heck is CHESS on the Billboard chart? How is it selling enough right now to make it on there?

[bwaylvsong]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 6:22pm

Thanks, frontrowcentre2, that was very informative!

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 6:25pm

Great analysis FrontRow - and you better believe the cost has only gone up in six years...

One aspect I don't know - and perhaps you might - for a show as recent as RAGTIME, which as you report has two recordings already on RCA Victor, what claim might they lay for a revival recording? Meaning either a) do they get first dibs on a revival cast recording or b) could they prevent another company from recording the score because it would compete with their recording which is still in print?

I'm sure it varies, but I do know there are often contract stipulations specifying a certain amount of time before another recording of music can be created.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 11/7/09 at 6:35pm

RCA/BMG no longer exists, having been absorbed into Sony. Their catalog titles are still on the RCA Victor imprint, but gradually Sony is re-releasing these titles under the Masterworks Broadway banner.

Usually a label has a clause in their contract to prevent a rival label from releasing a competing recording of the score withing a 2 year (or so) window. (Sony, however, would do well to get copies of the previous cast albums on sale at the Neil Simon if no new recording will be made.)

BTW, in the interview Rosenfield explains that he made a deal with Garth Drabinsky to record Livent Shows feeling this would give the label a steady line of product. Garth insisted that RAGTIME be recorded once prior to opening in Toronto and again after the Broadway opening. Rosenfield was reluctant because it would have meant releasing two versions within a year but when RAGTIME delayed the Broadway opening to 1998, and with steady sales of the highlights recording, Rosenfield was able to justify the expense to the RCA/BMG management. Both versions sold well.

[mormonophobic]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 2:25am

Just a little update: I went to the show today and asked about a possible recording. They have a mailing list where you can sign up for them to e-mail you if/when it gets released. The person at the merch stand I talked to said they were hopeful about getting one made and said something about them making the decision soon. Sorry I can't be more help, but I was in a hurry to get back to my seat to avoid buying too many goodies.

Sidenote: the show was on fuego tonight! It was the first time I've seen the show, although I've known the show for a while. I would definitely recommend it to anyone in the mood for a powerful show. I was seriously bawling by the end. And yet it somehow left me feeling uplifted and just so honored to see such a great production with a bevvy of talented performers.