Audience Member to Sue HAMILTON Citing Lack of Accommodation for Blind Patrons- Page 2

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:42am

No one is stating otherwise newintown.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:43am

Just saying, aaaaaa, you seem to skirt close to that statement, when you accuse others of not knowing "real oppression if it kicked you in the face."

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:44am

Did I or did I not say 'some of you'

[PopAria]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:59am

I'm not surprised this is happening. It's only a matter of time before all theatres get sued... i'm assuming handicapped people will wait until shows are hits so they can get more $$$.

I know someone who works with disabled people who sue old buildings in NYC for not having handicapped accommodations, i'm assuming this is the same thing happening here, no?

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:01pm

aaaaaa15 said: "Did I or did I not say 'some of you'"

Well, aren't we a testy bitch this afternoon.

 

[AEA Stage Manager]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:03pm

"If ever there was a show with a plot conveyed virtually entirely through audio... "

Audio Description is so much more. The trained professionals who do it also describe the set, props, costumes, lights and movements of the actors and scenery. It is a real valuable resource to those who use it. Most theatres that have a specific AD interpreted performance also usually have a preshow tactile tour for the patrons, they usually meet with the Wardrobe Dept and some onefrom the stage management team and get a good description of the costumes and get to touch and feel them. It is a truly wonderful program that most theatres have.

Updated On: 1/25/17 at 12:03 PM

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:04pm

g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "aaaaaa15 said: "Did I or did I not say 'some of you'"

Well, aren't we a testy bitch this afternoon."

Ah yes misogynistic language always helps though.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:06pm

The funny thing is, in any other circumstance, you might have had a point there, except I hate everyone equally.

[Theater_Nerd]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:46pm

rjm516 said: ""Racist is racist"

You guys need to learn about issues before you say ignorant things. You cannot be racist against white people. That is not a thing. Just like you cannot have sexism against males. That is not a thing. You can be prejudiced against white people, or men, sure, you can hate them, of course. But the institution of racism (and sexism) are words with meanings, about negative behavior towards those minorities without the power in that dynamic. You can't flip them around to make your cheap points in an attempt to show how clever and beyond PC you are or something. Stop doing that.

 

Refreshing to read something from someone with knowledge, conviction AND a conscience. BRAVO!!!

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 1:13pm

Interestingly, I found this list of Broadway shows currently (as of a few weeks ago, anyway) offering Audio Descriptive performances: http://www.soundassociates.com/services/blistings/

 

There are only four shows that offer it: ALADDIN, THE BOOK OF MORMON, THE LION KING, and WICKED, a.k.a. the huge tourist-and-family shows. (JERSEY BOYS is also on the list, but closed last week.) I would be willing to bet most shows cannot afford to offer it if it is not funded by another group, especially something so rarely requested.

 

Also interesting, there is an Audio Descriptive performance of HAMILTON in Chicago currently scheduled for March: http://www.broadwayinchicago.com/tickets/accessible-seating/

 

Regarding the ADA compliance, most Broadway theaters are old enough to be exempt from the law. Especially since most of them are also landmarked, so there is only so much construction and alteration the owners can do. At this point, nearly all theaters do have at least one restroom on ground level for disabled patrons, and any house manager will do their best to reseat someone who cannot walk up stairs. I can't tell you how many times a patron (usually with perfectly working legs) walks into a 100-plus-year-old theater where I am working and asks where the elevator is.

 

Fun fact: If you need a disabled restroom at the Cort Theatre, they will direct you to the Chipotle across the street.

 

Anyway, enough of the tangents. My take on this? This guy is targeting HAMILTON for his lawsuit because it's a hit and he stands to get a lot of money. He doesn't seem to care about the other 20 or so shows without AD. Which is sad, because if it wasn't clearly a moneygrab, it could be a good thing to actually raise awareness about the general lack of accommodation for the visually impaired.

Updated On: 1/25/17 at 01:13 PM

[starcatchers]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 3:32pm

kade.ivy said: "I don't know about this specific case, but I do know that the front-of-house staff was incredibly generous when I visited the show.

This is certainly not the same as a disability accessibility issue, but it does show the generosity of the staff at the Richard Rodgers. I'm...significantly overweight. I know it. Everyone who sees me knows it. When I see a show, I buy an aisle seat and am usually fine. I saw 9 shows my last trip, and the Rodgers was the only theatre in which I had a fit issue. Anyway, the head usher in the rear mezzanine told me as I walked in that I might be uncomfortable and that she could put a freestanding chair to the side behind the boxes if that worked better. I went up to check my seat, and sure enough, it was MISERABLE. I went back down, and she kindly put chairs for my mom and me to the side of the front mezz directly behind the boxes. Super nice, and something she didn't have to do! 

I wish I had checked her name to send my compliments to the Nederlanders. Does anyone know her here? She was a very spunky African American lady who looked to be in her 60s. She made a fun announcement to the mezz about cell phone use before the show! Great experience! 

 

"

I'm blanking on her name but I know exactly who you're talking about. She, and that announcement, have been there for years. On more than one occasion during In the Heights, I remember people applauding her. She's a gem. 

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 3:35pm

"Regarding the ADA compliance, most Broadway theaters are old enough to be exempt from the law."

 

I didn't realize that was a thing, but that explains that!

[zainmax]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 3:58pm

Anyway, enough of the tangents. My take on this? This guy is targeting HAMILTON for his lawsuit because it's a hit and he stands to get a lot of money. He doesn't seem to care about the other 20 or so shows without AD. Which is sad, because if it wasn't clearly a moneygrab, it could be a good thing to actually raise awareness about the general lack of accommodation for the visually impaired.

 

"

I agree 100%. Other shows might make changes after hearing about the lawsuit, and recognizing their own vulnerabilities. But, unfortunately, I doubt it.

 

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 8:00pm

I think the tactile tour that AEA describes sounds great.

But doesn't the Audio Description offer a blind person a service s/he does not get and cannot get in any other situation in her/his life? I'm curious as to how "Madame Rose is doing a striptease" is described, especially to someone who has never seen anybody do such a thing.

This isn't to say I oppose Audio Description. I don't. (Though after a lifetime of reading books while "watching" TV, I can say that most actions can be inferred from dialogue. In fact, it's a poor playwright who leaves essential action to stage directions/design alone, as some director will come along sooner or later and ignore those directions.)

I'm just wondering at the logic of mandating a service that supplies not equal, but superior, service to what the blind person can get elsewhere in life.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:07pm

The lovely usher mentioned in this thread is Beverly. She is by far my most favorite person to be working with  in any job I've ever had and she is good people by far. The announcement verbatim, in case anyone was wondering is this: 

"There are no restrooms on this floor, the closest one is 66 steps from that one, you have all been warned. Also, please put away your cell phones, you cannot use them. You can LOL but you cannot text your BFF. Otherwise, you'll have to deal with a VCWAA. A very cross woman with an attitude." 

But, I digress. We (my fellow ushers and I) bend over backwards day in and day out trying to accommodate people disability related or otherwise. Just the other day, there were two parties of four, one party bought tickets at the box office for four seats in the center Mezz, the other bought the same seats off stub hub. For some reason both were scanned in but those who bought their tickets off stub hub were able to stay but had to sit off to the side, two on one side of the mezz two on the other. Granted, it could easily be argued that it was the fault of the theatre because the ticket scanner was clearly not working the way it should. But, we could have just offered a heartfelt apology and have them leave. This leaves me scratching my head. If he has been to several shows on Broadway, why is it all of a sudden he's complaining about this now and at Hamilton? Pretty sure the answer is obvious. 

[astromiami]

Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:25pm

theatregeek6 said:
I don't disagree with the spirit of what you are saying.  But change the word white to black in your comment and see how it reads.  Racist is racist"

It is baffling how anyone can be so unaware of American history and the history of theater.

White people have dominated both and have not faced the discrimination that minority artists have. If you think that everything has been equal or is equal now...well, I might have a bridge to sell you.

[Sugar78]

Posted: 1/26/17 at 9:42am

As a person with a disability, I regret that the impression that a lot of people have is that we are just going around frivolously suing.  I'm in my late 30's, a lifelong paraplegic and wheelchair user, and I've never sued anyone, never threatened to sue anyone, and never encountered a lawyer who encouraged me to sue anyone.  But that's not to say I don't run into accessibility barriers, so I do support the continued efforts to make the world as accessible as possible.  I don't know what the motives are of the man in this situation, and for all I know they are in fact less than honorable.  But I'm not so quick to assume that he's just trying to make a buck either.  Unfortunately, as with any rights issue, sometimes the only way to create change is to raise hell and/or go through the legal process.  It seems there needs to be clarification in the law on this issue, and this may be the way to get that done.  That said, obviously there are proper channels to go through before dropping a lawsuit. I believe that was the issue in the story Anderson Cooper recently did which, by the way, did NOT go over well with the disability community because it was one-sided and did not explore the very real issue of ADA non-compliance that absolutely does exist. 

Also, a non-disabled person not understanding the purpose for an accommodation doesn't mean that the accommodation isn't legitimately needed by the person requesting it.  It's a matter of perspective.  People experience life, including the arts, in different ways and still find enjoyment.  For example, people ask what good is it to describe visuals to a blind person since they've never seen what's being described anyway.  How do you know they've never seen those things?  What if the person had sight earlier in life and later became blind?  In that case, visual descriptions could be very useful.  I frequently hear people question why certain places need to be wheelchair accessible because they assume someone in a wheelchair would never go to such a place. I often hear this about gyms and swimming pools because the assumption is physically disabled people are completely inactive, which is simply not true.  I guess the question to think about is whether you, if you became disabled in some way, would be willing to just throw up your hands and concede that you would no longer get to enjoy the things you love, including the arts?

As for my personal feelings about Hamilton... I gave up trying to get an accessible seat a long time ago.  Unfortunately I only make it to NY once a year or so, and I've never been able to find an accessible ticket for not only the times I have a trip planned, but any other dates I've randomly searched for just out of curiosity.  So I've tried to not get too invested in anything Hamilton related because I'm afraid if I did I'd get my heart set on wanting to see it. 

 

[Esther]

Posted: 1/26/17 at 11:07am

Sugar78 said: "
As for my personal feelings about Hamilton... I gave up trying to get an accessible seat a long time ago.  Unfortunately I only make it to NY once a year or so, and I've never been able to find an accessible ticket for not only the times I have a trip planned, but any other dates I've randomly searched for just out of curiosity.  So I've tried to not get too invested in anything Hamilton related because I'm afraid if I did I'd get my heart set on wanting to see it. 
"

The next time you're here, if you have any free slots,  try going in person that week & see if they have any accessible seats available directly at the box office.  I met a gentleman on my paratransit bus that was able to get a ticket that way this past November just a few days before he went. 

[Esther]

Posted: 1/26/17 at 11:37am

Yero my Hero said: "



Fun fact: If you need a disabled restroom at the Cort Theatre, they will direct you to the Chipotle across the street.
"

 

And there's steps to get in that Chipotle, so if you're in a wheelchair, you're SOL. Plus that Chipotle closes at 10PM.   The other option (mentioned in the Access Info tab @ Telecharge) is the Renaissance Hotel, around the corner on 7th avenue.
 

The Shubert theater sends you to the second floor restroom at Sardis across the street,  which isn't actually accessible from inside Sardis, but via the lobby elevator next door to Sardis.

 

At the Eugene O'Neill (which definitely had an accessible restroom inside the theater at one point, house left, front orchestra) , they send you to the 2nd floor of the Time Hotel next door. 

 

At the Golden, they'll send you to the Jacobs next door, though the Access Tab at Telecharge says to go to the Schoenfeld. 

 

 

[newintown]

Posted: 1/26/17 at 11:49am

The problem with discussing racism is that people often choose differing ways to define the word.

The straightforward dictionary definition is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

There are some who prefer to take a much harder ideological line and add this additional limitation: "... but only when used by the majority of a community, city, state, or nation against a minority."

And then there are some who would limit it still further: "... only applicable to white people, globally, whether they represent the majority or ruling class or not."

Until the people discussing the topic (or bitching each other out, as is more often the case) unite on a definition, any further exchange will be unfruitful.

Updated On: 1/26/17 at 11:49 AM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/26/17 at 8:52pm

Esther and Sugar78, speaking only for myself, I did not assume the plaintiff in question was merely courting cash. I don't know enough to have an opinion on that score.

And I'm certainly aware that not every blind person was blind from birth. I used the word "especially" to distinguish those who have been; I honestly don't understand how Audio Description would work in such cases. (How does it work? Is a tape played through headphones?)

But I was not complaining about the process. I don't care if my tax dollars are used for it (nor do I know if they are). In no case do I think the disabled "have it easy" or are getting some advantage over the rest of us.

And, frankly, I am shocked that theaters send disabled patrons "next door" to use the restroom! I assume from reading this thread that it has to do with the age of theater buildings and landmark status, but I'm still very surprised.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 1/27/17 at 12:03pm

And, frankly, I am shocked that theaters send disabled patrons "next door" to use the restroom! I assume from reading this thread that it has to do with the age of theater buildings and landmark status, but I'm still very surprised.

 

That is exactly it. If there is no restroom on the ground floor, and no way to create one in the existing building (maybe an office or closet, or even space under a staircase where one could be built), they either force disabled patrons to use stairs, which IS against the law no matter how old the theater is, tell them "Sorry, no bathroom for you," or direct them to another building. I can only speak about the Cort because I have experience with their staff, but the Chipotle they direct people to has an arrangement with the theater and allows audience members to use their restroom.

 

And I believe the Chipotle does have a ramp entrance, because they are new enough to fall under ADA requirements.

 

I did not assume the plaintiff in question was merely courting cash. I don't know enough to have an opinion on that score.

 

The only reason I thought that is because the plaintiff claims he attends lots of theater, but AD services are only offered at four shows out of 21 currently, 40 during peak season, and he did not think of suing until HAMILTON. Unless he considers "lots of theater" to be WICKED and THE LION KING.

Updated On: 1/27/17 at 12:03 PM

[Gabby Hayes]

Posted: 1/27/17 at 2:12pm

There are people (and attorneys) who make a good living scoping out possible ADA violations in various establishments.  This practice undermines actual grievances under this law.  As for being no such thing as racism against whites, that is baloney.  I worked in a majority black workplace for quite a while, and I can assure you it does exist.  

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 1/27/17 at 4:03pm

What was ridiculous about the Hamilton casting notice is that every professional actor and agent in the Western world knows how the show is cast.  There was no reason to spell out that most roles are cast with ethnic actors, or with few white actors, because everyone already knows.  I can imagine a casting notice for A Raisin In the Sun that doesn't include, "Seeking African-American actors..."  Who doesn't know that the play is specifically about a black family?  A notice for The Glass Menagerie may include, "All ethnicities encouraged to audition," which might indicate that the director is open to color-blind casting.  But the bottom line is, do your homework.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 1/27/17 at 7:07pm

newintown said: "The problem with discussing racism is that people often choose differing ways to define the word.

The straightforward dictionary definition is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

There are some who prefer to take a much harder ideological line and add this additional limitation: "... but only when used by the majority of a community, city, state, or nation against a minority."

And then there are some who would limit it still further: "... only applicable to white people, globally, whether they represent the majority or ruling class or not."

Until the people discussing the topic (or bitching each other out, as is more often the case) unite on a definition, any further exchange will be unfruitful.

 

"

Lung cancer matters, but let's not forget about breast cancer.