Avenue Q...why did it take this long to close?

[jansal]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 4:56pm

No, this is NOT a negative thread-I love Avenue Q! I am just amazed that it managed to last this long, in the midst of all of the shows that closed as a result of the recession, the strikes, etc., this struggled through for just about 6 years. And it's such a small show, in a small theater, and there are no crazy Wicked/Shrek type special effects...just a couple of very talented actors and puppets. I'm glad it has lasted for this long, but I honestly don't understand HOW it managed. Am I the only one that is curious?

[blaxx]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:00pm

Didn't you answer your own question there? It's very cheap to run.

[wdwfreak]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:00pm

Because it recouped it's investment in 2004 so the past four and half years, all they had to do was pay rent and the staff(ushers, performers, stagehands etc..) And it really isn't an expensive show to run.

[wdwfreak]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:00pm

double post Updated On: 8/3/09 at 05:00 PM

[jansal]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:04pm

Ah, that part of it didn't occur to me! I suppose I did answer my own question, hahaha. I still think it's pretty wonderful that such a 'small' show was able to hang on this long...and I remember hearing closing rumors years ago.

[blaxx]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:06pm

I liked more the part where you say the show only has a couple of very talented actors - and a few semi-talented ones? :)

[dramamama611]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:08pm

I just saw it last night...as did Allison Janney....it was still a blast!


As long as no one is LOSING money, a show will stay open.

[jansal]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:13pm

That's glorious. Well, I'll be sad to see it go.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:20pm

People like it, low running costs...

[Drunk Chita Rivera]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:42pm

Once a show recoups it has a pretty easy life. The cast is small (only about 10 people). They probably don't have very many stagehands. The theater is small so they don't need very many ushers and theater staff. And it's one of the smallest theaters on Broadway.

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:48pm

Most of these reasons are the same reasons that "Rent" was able to stay open for 12 years. Cast of 15, the only moving part of the set is the table, band of 5, cheap show, recouped original investment, and even some stunt casting.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 5:51pm

Actually, Rent had a cast of 21 - 15 on stage tracks, plus six swings, and 3 stage managers... pluss the periodic vacation swings for cast members and subs in the band.

Minor quibble, but nonetheless..

[Corine2]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 6:08pm

The owners of the GOLDEN wanted it for another show.
I wish that other show would go somewhere else. The Marquis is available. Wish Q could stay open.
SUCKS! It is my favorite Broadway show of all time.

PS Avenue is loved by most critics. Roma Torre, David Cote, Feldman and many others love it and talk about it often. Closing Avenue Q is a mistake!

I dont think anyone loves it as much as I do. September 13 will be a sad day. ;-(
Updated On: 8/3/09 at 06:08 PM

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 6:12pm

"Actually, Rent had a cast of 21 - 15 on stage tracks, plus six swings, and 3 stage managers, plus the periodic vacation swings for cast members and subs in the band. "

When I said "cast", I meant roles. I know there are six swings, but do stage managers and band members really count as the cast? I could understand counting swings, but I don't think Telsey + Company hired the band members and stage managers.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 9:15pm

Not necessarily, but they all get paid.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 9:37pm

of course they count...they get paid, and paid well. They get paid regardless of whether or not they perform...and in fact get paid MORE when they do go on.

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 10:03pm

Well, I know they count, but in my post I said I meant there are fifteen tracks or roles in the show. (please don't say, "Well Gwen Stewart played multiple roles including the bag lady, joanne's mom, and mimi's mom" because they were all played by the same ensemble member) Still, 21 actors in total is pretty small for a show, especially compared to Billy Elliot's gigantic [insert word meaning huge group of people/animals] of actors.

[Barney Stinson]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 10:54pm

"Once a show recoups it has a pretty easy life."

What does this mean? Why is a show's life, or budget rather, easier once it's recouped? Economically speaking, what is different - as far as it's weekly nut? I would think all the costs would be exactly the same, give or take discretionary marketing costs. Do certain costs drop?

[TreyKenyon]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 11:00pm

The weekly nut doesn't change but any gross higher than the nut is essentially money in producer's pocket once the show recoups. So if a show is doing mediocre before it recoups (9 to 5) a closing is more likely. But say for some reason Lion King started pulling in similar mediocre numbers, the show would still stay open because it would still be making money.

[Barney Stinson]

Posted: 8/3/09 at 11:32pm

I understand that you need to pay back investors before the producers make any real money, but I still don't understand how the base economics would change once the show recoups.

Either the show is grossing higher than its costs or it's not. If it is not for long enough, it closes. I don't get how having recouped or not effects that decision, or how its life is "easier" after recoupment.

[TreyKenyon]

Posted: 8/4/09 at 9:47am

You're right that a show has to be grossing over its weekly nut to stay open, but there is less pressure on a show that has already recouped.

For instance, say a show is averaging $100,000 profit after weekly costs are deducted. For a new show looking to recoup a possible multi-million dollar investment (Shrek, 9 to 5), this is shaky ground. Recoupment is going to take a long time at that pace and if they have a few rough weeks in regards to grosses they could be in some trouble.

However, if this same situation is applied to a recouped show, the situation isn't as grim. That $100,000 is now an actual profit for the producers. Now $100,000 isn't that great of a profit and producers may then be forced to take a closer look at show and see what can be fixed. While the possibility of closing is certainly still there, it is not as likely as the closing of an unrecouped show.

Essentially, once a show recoups and begins to make an actual profit, that show is then able to sustain a few subpar weeks or even months. Nearly every show takes a sizable hit come fall, but the major concerns are almost always for the new and/or unrecouped shows.

[Soliantu]

Posted: 8/4/09 at 10:18am

Very popular as well.

[Barney Stinson]

Posted: 8/4/09 at 11:41am

Thanks Trey Kenyon, I hear you. Things aren't really "easier" economically per se, just less pressure from producers, investors, etc.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 8/4/09 at 12:21pm

I would hardly call it "struggling."

Per VARIETY show has a weekly nut of $250-275 K. That means on a full 52 week year it needs to bring in approximately $13 million to cover costs.

2003 (Opened July 31) - needed $6.5 million to cover costs, grossed $7 mil. Surplus: $1 mil

2004 - Grossed $23 mill Surplus: $10 mil. (Recouped $5 mil. production costs in 2004)

2005 - Grossed $23 mil, Surplus: $10 mil.

2006 - Grossed $21 mil, Surplus $8 mil.

2007 - Grossed $17 mil, Surplus $4 mil.

2008 - Grossed $15 mil, Surplus $2 mil.

2009 - (36 weeks before closing... needs $9 mil to cover costs) Gross to date is $9 million with 5 more weeks to go. By closing Q will add another $1 mill + to its cumulative profit of (approx) $30,000,00.00

That cushion can help a show survive some lean weeks in the winter. By now, as you can see, the show is covering costs but no longer a major source of income. Time to close and move on.

Compare to 9 TO 5, which has been struggling to reach break-even week after week. Every good week is off-set by a money losing week. They haven't recovered much - if any - of the capitalization costs, and have no reserve to cover any lean weeks after labour day. Time to cut their losses, close and move on.

Then there's WICKED. It costs $32 mil a year to run but in 2008 grossed $75 mil. A $43 mil surplus for that one year alone. THAT is why people keep investing in the theatre. It's like a lottery. You just never know.

[gnosis404]

Posted: 8/5/09 at 2:41am

First of all...Telsey and company didn't cast Avenue Q. And yes...us swings and stage managers do consider ourselves a part of the company.