Best Musicals to not win Best Musical (Tony Award)

[USActorSinger]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 3:33pm

When these shows lost I felt like throwing my shoe at the TV. What shoes do you think should have won the award?
1. Ragtime
2. Into The Woods
3. Secret Garden
4. Miss Saigon
5. Parade

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 3:36pm

Dreamgirls.

[LiTtLeDaNcEr729]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 3:41pm

As much as I love Millie....Urinetown.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 3:43pm

Dreamgirls & Follies

[magruder]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 3:46pm

How about:

West Side Story
Gypsy
Chicago

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 3:58pm

definitely WSS in 57, when it was beat out by the Meredith Willson gem "The Music Man" - tough competition. but i guess it holds true for many comedies defeating dramas - even to this day.

ragtime
saigon
sunday in the park

Posted: 5/20/04 at 3:58pm

Dreamgirls
Ragtime
Once on this Island

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:03pm

As much as I love love love the lush score to NINE, I have to go with DREAMGIRLS as well. It's just so wonderfully constructed...the most important musical of the 80's.

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:07pm

those are some big words robbiej - i'm certainly not saying i disagree with you, but can you explain a bit why you think its the most important? it's a fantastic show - i'm just curious to hear why...

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:10pm

ok, so its no west side story or gypsy, but i cant believe that aida didnt even get a nom

what show beat miss saigon?

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:11pm

will rogers follies

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:21pm

LaChiusa's "Wild Party" should have won over "Aida".

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:25pm

aida didnt win, it wasnt nominated

[magruder]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:26pm

Aida wasn't nominated for Best Musical. Contact beat The Wild Party for Best Musical.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:29pm

I most certainly can, leo oh leo (you're right here beside me, ya know)

The first point is maybe my weakest...cause I may be wrong. But to my knowledge, this was the first 'black' musical to deal with color issues within that minority (light-skinned black vs. dark-skinned black...soul sound vs. smooth 'whiter' sound). It did so in a way that made it accessible to everyone.

second, it is the most fully-successful 'pop opera' we have. The score achieves a robust Broadway sound without ever bastardizing the pop music that is its source. For me, there was always something odd about Jesus or Jean-Valjean singing so 'pop'y. And the music in RENT never fully achieves a true rock sound. DREAMGIRLS tells the story of that time through its music. It's a wonder of a score.

This show also proved that serious themes can still be discussed in a show that has a sense of humor and is very entertaining.

Finally, Michael Bennett's staging proved that theatre could be as visually striking and as fast-moving as film. A quarter century after the fact, WEST SIDE STORY finally found its descendant.

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:42pm

...and ive never seen it do you think dreamgirls will ever be revived, or is it on video perhaps?

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:44pm

I'm sure there is a tape at Lincoln Center.

Will it be revived? Absolutely. And quite soon. Isn't Jerry Mitchell attached?

[EffieWhite]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:47pm

ONCE ON THIS ISLAND is certainly a better show than WILL ROGERS FOLLIES. The NINE/DREAMGIRLS argument is a little dicier but I side with DREAMGIRLS. SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE is 10 times better than LA CAGE AUX FOLLES I don't care what anyone says. Must the biggest error of all time was giving the Tony to TWO GENTLEMEN OF VERONA over FOLLIES.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:58pm

USActorSinger - Miss Saigon and Secret Garden were the same year. One of them had to lose.

And yes, I would include:
West Side Story
Sunday in the Park With George
The Most Happy Fella
Dreamgirls
Blood Brothers
Call Me Madam
Paint Your Wagon
Of Thee I Sing
Gypsy
Oliver
She Loves Me
Hair
Purlie
Jesus Christ Superstar
On the Twentieth Century
Black and Blue
The Wild Party
Jane Eyre

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:58pm

To follow up one of RobbieJ's points (well done by the way), Dreamgirls managed a feat that only a couple of rock/pop musicals have ever been able to accomplish (and nearly all aspire to) -- the composers created a score so authentic that tracks taken directly from the original cast album (unremixed) actually hit the Top 40 on the Billboard charts. Jennifer Holliday's original track of "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" went to Number One on the R&B charts and stayed there for 4 weeks and ranked as high as #22 on the Pop Chart. Ben Harney and Sheryl Lee Ralph's "When I First Saw You" also hit the R&B Top 40. While there have been covers done of songs from Broadway shows by mainstream pop artists that have had chart success (several songs from "Hair," "Memory" from Cats, "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" to name a few), "And I Am Telling You" and "Day By Day" from Godspell (which hit #1 on the pop charts) I believe are the only two tracks directly from cast album to top any of the Billboard Charts in the rock era (or at least the last 40 years or so). Truly remarkable. And if we had more shows that actually had a true authentic sound that reflected what is going on in the musical mainstream (which was the case for decades -- until the 60's, songs from Broadway shows regularly made it to the top of the charts) Broadway wouldn't have to resort to casting faded boy band members in order to attract the youth audience and the theatre as a whole would be healthier (rather than the bastard child of the entertainment world in terms of economics).

Updated On: 5/20/04 at 04:58 PM

[joniray]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:04pm

USActorSinger said:
"When these shows lost I felt like throwing my shoe at the TV. What shoes do you think should have won the award?
1. Ragtime
2. Into The Woods
3. Secret Garden
4. Miss Saigon
5. Parade"

But Secret Garden and Miss Saigon couldn't have both won. They were nominated the same year.

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:04pm

Parade, definitely! I'm just curious; what beat it for Best Musical?

[musicaltheatreman]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:07pm

the will rogers follies did the best musical tony beating out miss saigon

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:07pm

FOSSE won over PARADE.

[Deena Jones2]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:15pm

DREAMGIRLS!!!