Best Musicals to not win Best Musical (Tony Award)- Page 2

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:16pm

I would just like to thank Margo and Robbie for their consistantly erudite, informative and well-presented posts. Besides which, their icons are the most fabulous

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 5:18pm

MargoChanning - You're forgetting (and most people do) "One Night in Bangkok" from Chess hit the charts before the show was even produced in the US.

Personally, I like Two Gentlemen of Verona over Follies. I can't stand the book or the score to Follies. The most difficult year for me was Miss Saigon, Will Rogers Follies, Secret Garden and Once on This Island. I do have to agree with Will Rogers Follies winning Best Musical. It was inventive and stunning with great choreography and sets. The score and book were quite good. I loved all the shows, but overall, I felt Will Rogers Follies really incorporated all the aspects of musical theatre well while being original and classic at the same time. It was a tough call. Also difficult was Tommy, Kiss of the Spider Woman and Blood Brothers. I liked Tommy better than Kiss of the Spider Woman, but I found Blood Brothers to be the most emotionally engaging and moving.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 6:01pm

FYI re: Dreamgirls -- it is VERY difficult to get permission to view the tape at Lincoln Center. Normally, to see a tape in the collection all one has to do is give a reason for wanting to view the tape on the request form (you can make up just about anything) and the request is pretty much automatically granted. For Dreamgirls, you have write a letter to the lawyer for the Michael Bennett estate and request permission and unless you have a damn good reason to see it (ie, you have been hired to direct/choreograph a PROFESSIONAL production of the show and can prove it), your request will be denied. His lawyer (his name escapes me at the moment -- he's a entertainment law partner with Paul Weiss, a law firm that, among many other things, represents several of the bigger not-for-profit theatres in the city) is unfortunately VERY overprotective about the Dreamgirls property. He personally scuttled the inclusion of the "And I Am Telling You" scene from the 1982 Tonys which was to be in the PBS special and DVD on the Greatest Tony Moments that came out last year -- no reason was given officially, but it had something to do with rights issues and the fact that a revival of the show was in the works. I don't know, perhaps he wants to create an aura of mystique around the show so he doesn't want it shown too frequently, who knows? I really don't get his logic.

It's a shame too, looking back over the 500+ professional productions I have seen since I saw Dreamgirls back in '82 (and I went back a half dozen times afterwards), I have yet to see a better piece of staging and direction than Bennett's work on the show. Nothing even comes close (though certain elements have been copied by other directors and other shows). And add to that the score, the ingenius design elements and a few legendary performances and you have piece of theatrical history that begs to be seen and seen again by every lover of the theatre (especially those who missed it the first time around).

Rumors abound about the status of the revival (last I heard -- and I don't think it's true -- was that the version that did a mini-tour of the west a few months ago with Frenchie Davis might be brought in to fill the Shubert during the months it'll be dark after Gypsy closes and before the next tenant comes in in early 2005 ....I really doubt that). I heard Jerry Mitchell's name attached at one point, but he has such a full plate (three or four shows in the next 18 months including the West Side Story revival) I'm not sure he will be able to. Brenda Braxton (who was in the chorus of the original cast) recreated some of the Bennett staging and choreography for the concert version that played at the Ford Center a week after 9/11 back in 2001. Perhaps she can do a "Baayork Lee" and just put the original Bennett staging back on its feet (Lee oversees all professional productions of A Chorus Line, recreating Bennett's original staging and choreography).

A new concept by a first rate director might be fine, but I have to say, I really doubt that anyone can improve on the original. We'll see. My guess is that we'll see Dreamgirls back in NY in one form or another sometime in 2005.

Posted: 5/20/04 at 6:09pm

Margo - I, too, went to multiple performances of "Dreamgirls" - what an event. I was curious as to why they were given permission to include "And I am Telling You" in the movie "Camp," but then not include it on the soundtrack. I was SO excited when they originally publicized the collection from past Tony shows - primarily because of the inclusion of Ms. Holliday's performance - and then didn't end up buying it because they left it out.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 6:11pm

In addition to shows like Miss Saigon, Ragtime, ITW, and Wild Party, I would like to add Pippin, Tommy, and Grand Hotel.

Updated On: 5/20/04 at 06:11 PM

[Jon]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 6:26pm

No one has mentioned FALSETTOS! (CRAZY FOR YOU won that year)

At least it won Best Book and Best Score.

[NuggetMonkeys]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 6:28pm

ASSASSINS.

sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...never had a chance....

-d.b.j-

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 6:36pm

Mister Matt,

"Chess" is an excellent example of a theatre project well-served by original contemporary pop music -- thanks for pointing it out. But I should mention that "One Night In Bangkok" only made it to #3 on the Billboard pop chart, not number one. Lots of songs from cast albums have hit the top hundred over the years (Ronald Dennis' "Aquarius," Betty Buckley's "Memory"), but only the two I mentioned have made it to number one on any of the charts. I should also point out that the Head recording came from the Concept Album that was made a couple of years BEFORE the show was staged in London, featuring several folks who weren't in the original cast, including composers Benny and Bjorn, so technically the song didn't come directly from an original cast album, even though Head, of course, later was part of the original cast.

Updated On: 5/20/04 at 06:36 PM

[MusicalDirector109]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 7:01pm

"The Sound of Music" (as much as I love it) and "Fiorello!" over "Gypsy"?
"The Lion King" over "Ragtime"?

[brdwaybaby17]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 7:02pm

Ragtime for sure... stupid Lion King... don't get me wrong, I enjoyed watching Lion King, but it didn't make me think. Ragtime gets the brain going and I think we should reward shows that don't merely visually stimulate us for 2 and a half hours...

[billyweeds]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 7:29pm

The biggest travesty of them all was "The Sound of Music" beating "Gypsy." "The Sound of Music" was a good show, though sticky sweet, and in many years its winning wouldn't have been so ridiculous. But over "GYPSY"!!! Criminal.

[NYCbabe3789]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 9:51pm

In this order:

Urinetown
Into The Woods
Ragtime

[BroadwayDiva]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 10:05pm

Jesus Christ Superstar- definately.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 10:50pm

I second Falsettos.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 5/20/04 at 11:13pm

I've always been resentful about Ragtime losing the Tony because I think that had it won, it would have been more likely to stay on Broadway despite Livent's financial difficulties (or perhaps its win would have alleviated those difficulties, for the short term). The local prodiction I saw last year in Evanston, IL was decent but it hurt to have to introduce my best friend to the show that way. Although she loved it, I know she would have been mesmerized by Evelyn Nesbit performing a trapeze act for "Crime of the Century" rather than just standing on a platform singing it, as she was in the local production.

Posted: 5/20/04 at 11:38pm

Here are some of the losers of the "Best Musical" Tony.


1957 - CANDIDE and MOST HAPPY FELLA
1958 - WEST SIDE STORY
1960 - GYPSY
1963 - OLIVER and STOP THE WORLD, I WANT TO GET OFF
1964 - FUNNY GIRL and SHE LOVES ME
1965 - GOLDEN BOY
1966 - MAME and SWEET CHARITY
1967 - THE APPLE TREE
1972 - FOLLIES
1975 - MACK AND MABEL
1976 - CHICAGO and PACIFIC OVERTURES
1978 - ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY
1982 - DREAMGIRLS
1984 - SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE
1988 - INTO THE WOODS

Updated On: 5/20/04 at 11:38 PM

Posted: 5/20/04 at 11:45pm

Deena's gonna do what?

We finally get the chance to have our own group and Deena's gonna sing lead?

No One can SEE her on a RECORD!

DREAMGIRLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[bythesword84]

Posted: 5/21/04 at 12:50am

Urinetown, Miss Saigon, and Ragtime.

Who won over Jane Eyre? I can't for the life of me remember what else was around that season.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 5/21/04 at 1:12am

James Joyce's The Dead
Urinetown
Ragtime
Sunday In The Park
Into The Woods
Dreamgirls
Gypsy

[USActorSinger]

Posted: 5/21/04 at 3:11am

yeah....totally forgot Saigon and Secret Garden were the same year. As much as I love Miss Saigon I would give it to Secret Garden...I think its the better show. Some of the lyrics in Saigon are just lame (sorry Mr. Maltby). West Side Story, Gypsy, Follies, and many others mentioned certainly deserved the award, but they were before my time. The one that just infuriated me was Ragtime. I refused to see lion king for the longest time, but i finally saw it ...and it is a great show, but Ragtime I think is one of the greatest shows ever written and that production was amazing. Such a shame they couldn't keep it running! I love Parade and it deserved it over Fosse, but how often does the Best Musical tony go to a show that closed at a loss months before the nominations. I'm hoping JRB eventually fulfills his destiny by composing a score for a hit show and becomes the next sondheim. That way we can look forward to Parade and Last Five Years winning Best Revival awards, just like sir sondheim's Into the woods and Assaisins.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/21/04 at 7:03am

The Producers beat out Jane Eyre and The Fully Monty.

[USActorSinger]

Posted: 5/21/04 at 11:49am

Jane Eyre has some great moments, and i really like it, but its not everyones cup of tea. The Producers is very entertaining, but Fully Monty was the best show that year. It has the superior book and score. Maybe in fifteen years it will have an ultra successful revival did like Chicago.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/21/04 at 12:11pm

oooh, yes, I agree about The Full Monty

Here are famous plays that did not win Best Play:

1956 - Bus Stop, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, both beat by Diary of Anne Frank

1960 - A Raisin in the Sun, beat by The Miracle Worker

1962 - The Caretaker and The Night of the Iguana, both beat by A Man for All Seasons

1963 - A Thousand Clowns and Mother Courage and Her Children, both beat by Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (my fav play)

1965 - The Odd Couple and Tiny Alice, by The Subject Was Roses

1978 - Chapter Two, Deathtrap, and The Gin Game, beat by Da

1980 - Bent and Talley's Folly, by Children of a Lesser God

1981 - Fifth of July by Amadeus

1982 - Crimes of the Heart, The Dresser, and Master Harold..., by ...Nicholas Nickleby

1983 - 'Night Mother and Plenty, by Torch Song Trilogy

1984 - Glengarry Glen Ross, Noises Off, by The Real Thing

1985 - As Is, Hurlyburly, Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, by Biloxi Blues

1990 - Lettice and Lovage, Prelude to a Kiss, and The Piano Lesson, by The Grapes of Wrath

1991 - Six Degrees of Separation, by Lost in Yonkers

1993 - The Sisters Rosensweig, Someone Who'll Watch Over Me, and The Song of Jacob Zulu, by Angels in America: Millenium Approaches

1994 - The Kentucky Cycle, by Angels in America: Perestroika

to name a few...

Updated On: 5/21/04 at 12:11 PM

[USActorSinger]

Posted: 5/21/04 at 12:14pm

wow!

[marincrazy11]

Posted: 5/21/04 at 1:10pm

I agree with Ragtime! Not only cuz I love the show but I jsut saw Lion King for the first time and I felt like I could have seen the openings of act 1 and 2 and been satisfied. It didn't draw me in, I mean visually, yes it was stunning, but beyond on that there wasn't anything that reeled me in. Maybe having known the story going in because I grew up with the movie made it different for me, but compared to Ragtime which had a compelling storyline and wonderful score, Lion King looked like a big parade of animals set to music.