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Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?) — Page 2

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#29

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 3:41pm

I don't think success or failure should be defined in terms of commercial success alone. But that's been discussed elsethreadwhere.

London productions of On The Twentieth Century, Sweeney Todd, Pippin, The Mystery of Edwin Drood and La Cage Aux Folles were all similar productions to the Broadway originals and were short running commercial failures.

Eric: the OLC of Pippin included West End stalwarts Patricia Hodge, Diane Langton, Paul Jones and Elizabeth Welch.

The original London production of Chicago, though redesigned and restaged, ran for two years and I would have thought was deemed a success.

Stephen Daldry's production of An Inspector Calls didn't repeat its huge UK success in the US.

I wonder why Charlie Girl, which ran for 7 years in the West End, never transferred to Broadway?

Updated On: 9/24/09 at 03:41 PM

#30

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 3:42pm

Anyhow, it is a fact that ReNt has failed to return its investment in all international productions. The London one was a major floperoo.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#31

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 3:48pm

Aida also, well kinda, It was successful in NYC and has never had a London run. Which is suprising since its done by Elton John and Tim Rice. What ever you may think of the show and its music, those 2 I would have thought would be like London Theatre Royalty.

Beauty and the Beast also took a long time to get to London and ended up being produced by the German company and only ran for under 4 years I think.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27199361@N08/ Phantom at the Royal Empire Theatre
#32

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 4:02pm

If you don't have an objective way to determine a flop or a hit, then you're just left with your opinion.

I don't understand why it is so hard for people to grasp the concept: For a specific production to open a group of people invested a certain amount of money. If they made it back, then the business was a success if they didn't it just wasn't.

It has nothing to with the quality of the material or the production itself, but all these productions you are discussing were open for commercial runs. It would only make sense to judge the success of a specific production that way.

However, if you prefer the route of "It was a success because the night I went everyone laughed so hard and gave it a standing ovation and the theater was full", you are obviously ignoring that these shows are invested on to make money, people don't exactly invest millions for the love of art.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#34

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 4:42pm

"Pretty sure Thoroughly Modern Millie and Drowsy Chaperone had very weak runs in the West End."

I thought this thread was about shows that flopped in London, but were a hit in NYC and vice versa. Thoroughly Modern Millie was a flop in New York and London.

And I am going by blaxx's definition of a flop, which is the correct one.

Though I know sometimes people have described shows in terms of being a critical success or failure (for example, a show that ran for two years with rave reviews, yet failed to recoup its investment is a critical hit, yet still a flop).
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611

Updated On: 9/24/09 at 04:42 PM

#35

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 4:46pm

Actually Millie, Drowsy was a hit on Broadway and was a major flop at The Novello in London despite having Paige in the title role.
"If you try to shag my husband while I am still alive, I will shove the art of motorcycle maintenance up your rancid little Cu**. That's a good dear" Tom Stoppard's Rock N Roll
#36

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 4:49pm

Ahh, I keep forgetting that Drowsy Chaperone recouped its investment.

"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#38

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 4:51pm

Could the original production of Jesus Christ Superstar that played the Mark Hellinger and the revival that played the Hilton Theatre be considered as flops?
#39

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 4:52pm

Hit on Broadway, Flop in West End:
Tommy
The Full Monty
Spamalot

Hit in West End, Flop on Broadway (or Off-Broadway):
Buddy
Fame
Return to the Forbidden Planet
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#40

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 4:53pm

Perfectlymarvelous, no.

"Luftig said the show will have recouped about 80 percent of its investment, and will pay its investors fully in coming seasons."

http://tinyurl.com/yctxsn3
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611

Updated On: 9/24/09 at 04:53 PM

#41

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 4:55pm

Could the original production of Jesus Christ Superstar that played the Mark Hellinger and the revival that played the Hilton Theatre be considered as flops?

Yes.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#43

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/24/09 at 5:03pm

When Billy Elliot recoups (which it will soon), Thoroughly Modern Millie will be the only Best Musical Tony winner to have flopped in this decade.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#44

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/25/09 at 9:16am

EricMontreal22, regarding the London PIPPIN I don't know how accurate the 84 performance run (from Wikipedia) is. From what I have read it ran four weeks at Her Majesty's Theatre. There were several changes made to the show there - including adding an interval which happened at the end of the sex ballet.

Scripps2, CHARLIE GIRL ran 5 1/2 years in London 1965 - early 1971. The show opened in Melbourne, Australia in September of 1971 transferring to Auckland in May 1972 and running there til August. The huge British movie star of the 1940's and 50's Anna Neagle was the major reason for the success of the show. She stayed with the show for all seven years.Perhaps without her being a box office name in the U.S. it was felt the show wouldn't last the distance.

Here is another NY to London failure, the 1979 transfer AIN'T MISBEHAVIN'.
#45

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/25/09 at 9:53am

Blaxx the Original London Production of Rent was not a major flop, the show recouped almost all of its investment (around 90 percent)
I remember Rent closing in London as i was doing a show in London at the same time. For the last few months of its life the residents around that area were complaining about the loud rock music from the theatre and the fans been to loud lol.

The 1st tour of Rent in the UK did very well and went back to London for a limited season (That tour and season in london recouped)

Rent Remixed (or Rent Reduced) lost all of its investment and was utter rubbish

A new tour of Rent is planned for 2010 in the UK

To the person who asked about Taboo in the UK
The Uk production made its money back and had a good run for a small indie show in a tiny venue.

Poppins made its money back in the UK and has cleaned up on tour.

And Chitty should have closed much earlier in London as it was playing to pretty much empty houses for the last few months, im sure they only kept it open to become the longest running show at the Palladium
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#46

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/25/09 at 10:52am

The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas flopped in London. Mame lost money as well.

The Moony Shapiro Songbook which won the Olivier for best musical ran for one performance on Broadway.

Scripps - I wouldn't say thats true about AN INSPECTOR CALLS. It was quite a hit in the US, made its money, had a tour and won a slew of Tony Awards. The fact that it didn't run for 5 years as it did in the UK is incidental.

Updated On: 9/25/09 at 10:52 AM

#47

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/25/09 at 3:48pm

the Original London Production of Rent was not a major flop, the show recouped almost all of its investment (around 90 percent)

That is a flop, love. If you put ten dollars into a business and get 9 dollars back, it didn't quite work out, did it?
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#48

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/25/09 at 3:59pm

blaxx, the oringinal post didn't state fincancial flop, they used flop in the general sense, which could be a mulitude of factors (critical response, ticket sales, general opinion).

And also SANDM2 wasn't implying that the original production of Rent in London wasn't a flop, he was just saying that it wasn't a failure like most believe.

This thread is really interesting and I think it's a thread that is more opinion based and not so technically based, which i like. For instance Spring Awakening was a flop in London and a hit in New York, however it recieved just as much critical acclaim on both sides of the pond.
#50

re: Big in New York, Flop in London (and vice versa?)

Posted: 9/25/09 at 4:03pm

You obviously didn't read the whole thread. A flop is a flop, there's no way around it.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE

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