Broadway Composers You Dislike — Page 3
#52
Posted: 2/20/08 at 4:15pm
How can you hate Ricky Ian Gordon? His stuff is gorgeous and he loves sopranos 
I don't get JRB hate either, but...
ALW I guess would be my answer, minus JCS and Evita. Wildhorn's stuff is a guilty pleasure for me, I'll admit
I don't get JRB hate either, but...
ALW I guess would be my answer, minus JCS and Evita. Wildhorn's stuff is a guilty pleasure for me, I'll admit
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#53
Posted: 2/20/08 at 5:55pm
Glad that John Kander, Cy Coleman and Jule Styne have thus far escaped the hate.
Man is that a relief!
I pretty much like SOME of Andrew Lloyd Webber's stuff. I love BY JEEVES, JOSEPH, JCSS, EVITA, WHISTLE, and StEX, and I like bits and pieces of CATS, but I have absolute disdain for PHANTOM and ASPECTS.
I truly abhor Frank Wildhorn (except for "The Civil War" and parts of "Jekyll").
I cannot stand either Michael John LaChiusa or Ricky Ian Gordon, because both guys do stuff that is not very interesting to listen to, mainly because the melodies don't get anywhere or "move".
Scott Alan's work sounds a little bit on the boring side.
Man is that a relief!
I pretty much like SOME of Andrew Lloyd Webber's stuff. I love BY JEEVES, JOSEPH, JCSS, EVITA, WHISTLE, and StEX, and I like bits and pieces of CATS, but I have absolute disdain for PHANTOM and ASPECTS.
I truly abhor Frank Wildhorn (except for "The Civil War" and parts of "Jekyll").
I cannot stand either Michael John LaChiusa or Ricky Ian Gordon, because both guys do stuff that is not very interesting to listen to, mainly because the melodies don't get anywhere or "move".
Scott Alan's work sounds a little bit on the boring side.
"How could she just suddenly, completely disappear into thin water?" - The Little Mermaid
#54
Posted: 2/20/08 at 7:40pm
"Glad that John Kander, Cy Coleman and Jule Styne have thus far escaped the hate."
From reading through the thread, I'm guessing the only reason they've escaped unscathed is A)ignorance of their music altogether or B)people just forgot them.
Let's rack 'em up:
Loesser
Rodgers
Kern
Gershwin
Any other awful artists we forgot to list?
From reading through the thread, I'm guessing the only reason they've escaped unscathed is A)ignorance of their music altogether or B)people just forgot them.
Let's rack 'em up:
Loesser
Rodgers
Kern
Gershwin
Any other awful artists we forgot to list?
Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.
#55
Posted: 2/20/08 at 8:48pm
So far Adam Guettel has escaped mention. Surprising, as much as I love him, because a lot of my friends in the theatre don't care for him much.
And I am going to incur the terrible wrath of the gods for this, but I just don't like Jerry Herman much. I can't help tapping my damn feet every time I hear one of his songs, but at the same time, I resent it. I'm like, "get out of my head with your snappy little tune!"
And I am going to incur the terrible wrath of the gods for this, but I just don't like Jerry Herman much. I can't help tapping my damn feet every time I hear one of his songs, but at the same time, I resent it. I'm like, "get out of my head with your snappy little tune!"
#56
Posted: 2/20/08 at 9:22pm
I'd have to agree that Wildhorn is really terrible, but still a guilty pleasure of mine as well. His music does sound the same all the time and I can't really listen to an entire Wildhorn album. However, I do enjoy a few songs from each of his musicals.
start rant-- I mean no offense and I hope no one takes this personally, but I just don't get people who dislike Phantom. I mean, everyone has thier own taste and you can't really argue with that, but there comes a point where I question whether it's genuine dislike of the musical or just the fact that saying you hate Phantom/ALW makes you sound "smart" or something. It would just appear that hating ALW/Phantom has become really fashionable I just really love the show. I guess that makes me dumb, right? --end rant
start rant-- I mean no offense and I hope no one takes this personally, but I just don't get people who dislike Phantom. I mean, everyone has thier own taste and you can't really argue with that, but there comes a point where I question whether it's genuine dislike of the musical or just the fact that saying you hate Phantom/ALW makes you sound "smart" or something. It would just appear that hating ALW/Phantom has become really fashionable I just really love the show. I guess that makes me dumb, right? --end rant
"But I can tell you that Raoul, who was so handsome in "The Phantom," is now a drunken wreck."
Updated On: 2/20/08 at 09:22 PM
#57
Posted: 2/20/08 at 10:04pm
^yea, its basicaly people just like to look cool. Yet, some on here might really dislike his music. I for one dont like CATS, but I like POTO. His music is a hit or miss for me.
I LOVE Schwartz's work. He really makes the characters come alive for me.
To recite a beautiful line he wrote
"Dont wish, Dont start. Wishing only wounds the heart"
that is such a true statement. His music is very accesible to many.
I LOVE Schwartz's work. He really makes the characters come alive for me.
To recite a beautiful line he wrote
"Dont wish, Dont start. Wishing only wounds the heart"
that is such a true statement. His music is very accesible to many.
#58
Posted: 2/20/08 at 11:23pm
See, I think that's actually a pretty bad lyric.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#59
Posted: 2/20/08 at 11:52pm
That lyric is a perfect example of Schwartz's low-level lyric writing. I love so many of his melodies, but his lyrics make me cringe...
For me, I dislike Boublil & Shoenberg. I really tried so hard to get into Saigon and Les Mis. I like a few songs from Les Mis, but overall the score is so lifeless in that it lacks passion and those dramatic moments that draw me into other scores. For Saigon, I pretty much can listen only to the Overture without getting bored.
What I've heard of JRB makes me question the hype as well...though I'm not that familiar overall with him.
...And I really love Adam Guettel and Andrew Lippa, even though some people question their lyrical abilities, just because they can really make melodies that draw you in, IMHO.
For me, I dislike Boublil & Shoenberg. I really tried so hard to get into Saigon and Les Mis. I like a few songs from Les Mis, but overall the score is so lifeless in that it lacks passion and those dramatic moments that draw me into other scores. For Saigon, I pretty much can listen only to the Overture without getting bored.
What I've heard of JRB makes me question the hype as well...though I'm not that familiar overall with him.
...And I really love Adam Guettel and Andrew Lippa, even though some people question their lyrical abilities, just because they can really make melodies that draw you in, IMHO.
#60
Posted: 2/21/08 at 12:03am
I am kinda sick of people on here just bashing composers. I mean, yeah some of them have turned out some really poor scores, but it is really hard to do and I would like to see some of you guys try to write an score for a Broadway show.
I do not know why so many people hate Sondheim. Personally, I think he is a genius.
Also, I know ALW is not the best composer, but I do think that many of his songs are gorgeous! (most from Phantom and Evita)
I do not know why so many people hate Sondheim. Personally, I think he is a genius.
Also, I know ALW is not the best composer, but I do think that many of his songs are gorgeous! (most from Phantom and Evita)
#61
Posted: 2/21/08 at 12:19am
I think ALW is an amazing composer. You can't deny that the melodies in themselves are good. Too bad that everything else about his scores makes people dislike them. The recycling, lyrics, and the way he chooses to place his songs into his shows all show a lack of care. The two musicals of his that I like are POTO and Evita. He also needs to improve the people he chooses to collaborate with, IMO.
#62
Posted: 2/21/08 at 12:28am
I don't really see it as bashing and in all fairness, it is a Broadway Composers you DISLIKE thread so you kind of know what to expect.
Every composer has good qualities and every composer has bad qualities. I don't think any are truly hopeless and I don't think any are perfect. I just, you know, raise an eyebrow when someone pretty much lists any and all well-known composers without explanation.
Every composer has good qualities and every composer has bad qualities. I don't think any are truly hopeless and I don't think any are perfect. I just, you know, raise an eyebrow when someone pretty much lists any and all well-known composers without explanation.
"But I can tell you that Raoul, who was so handsome in "The Phantom," is now a drunken wreck."
#63
Posted: 2/21/08 at 12:46am
Pianist3912, I totally agree with you :)
#64
Posted: 2/21/08 at 1:05am
I mean no offense and I hope no one takes this personally, but I just don't get people who dislike Phantom.... it's genuine dislike of the musical or just the fact that saying you hate Phantom/ALW makes you sound "smart" or something. It would just appear that hating ALW/Phantom has become really fashionable I just really love the show.
The American critics in general have hated Webber right from the start. Even his best work, EVITA. was dismissed by most of the NY critics.
I was sent to review the original production when it opened in January 1988. I loved much of Hal Prince's staging, and several songs have glorious melodies, but the lyrics were so boring and empty that I kept losing focus. "All I ask of You" is a perfect example. A glorious melody, with an empty repetitive lyrics. So instead of being drawn into the emotion, I am put off by its banality. The script also is muddled and doesn't make the action clear. I filed a mixed review stating that the show had lots of smoke and mirrors but lacked substance. I have it 2 1/2 stars out of 5 (It scored a 67/100 on my score sheet.)
In July 2002 I was back in NYC with a friend who had never seen the show and we took advantage of their $17.76 special. He had the exacpt same reaction. He gave it 66/100.
Obviously the show works for many people, but so far no one has offered me a compelling argument for they show outside of their passionate love for the material. I do not understand why it has become so phenomenally popular as to run 20 years when so many better shows have opened and closed.
If you have any insights I would love to hear them.
The American critics in general have hated Webber right from the start. Even his best work, EVITA. was dismissed by most of the NY critics.
I was sent to review the original production when it opened in January 1988. I loved much of Hal Prince's staging, and several songs have glorious melodies, but the lyrics were so boring and empty that I kept losing focus. "All I ask of You" is a perfect example. A glorious melody, with an empty repetitive lyrics. So instead of being drawn into the emotion, I am put off by its banality. The script also is muddled and doesn't make the action clear. I filed a mixed review stating that the show had lots of smoke and mirrors but lacked substance. I have it 2 1/2 stars out of 5 (It scored a 67/100 on my score sheet.)
In July 2002 I was back in NYC with a friend who had never seen the show and we took advantage of their $17.76 special. He had the exacpt same reaction. He gave it 66/100.
Obviously the show works for many people, but so far no one has offered me a compelling argument for they show outside of their passionate love for the material. I do not understand why it has become so phenomenally popular as to run 20 years when so many better shows have opened and closed.
If you have any insights I would love to hear them.
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
#65
Posted: 2/21/08 at 2:45am
Can we do our favorite composers instead? It's so much more positive! 
In no particular order:
Sondheim
Gershwin
Bernstein
Rodgers
Lerner and Loewe
Styne
Flaherty and Ahrens
Guettel
In no particular order:
Sondheim
Gershwin
Bernstein
Rodgers
Lerner and Loewe
Styne
Flaherty and Ahrens
Guettel
"I seem to have wandered into the BRAIN load-out thread... "
-best12bars
"Sorry I am a Theatre major not a English Major"
-skibumb5290
-best12bars
"Sorry I am a Theatre major not a English Major"
-skibumb5290
#66
Posted: 2/21/08 at 3:01am
umm ive found that with wildhorn, he's not the problem when it comes to "wildhorn shows" its the lyrics that sink them.
also all these people talking about sondheim need to really take broadway history lesson, or start seeing shows not written in the last decade.
also all these people talking about sondheim need to really take broadway history lesson, or start seeing shows not written in the last decade.
#67
Posted: 2/21/08 at 8:32am
"Glad that John Kander, Cy Coleman and Jule Styne have thus far escaped the hate."
From reading through the thread, I'm guessing the only reason they've escaped unscathed is A)ignorance of their music altogether or B)people just forgot them.
Let's rack 'em up:
Loesser
Rodgers
Kern
Gershwin
Any other awful artists we forgot to list?"
Some other majors that thankfully, have not been mentioned:
Vincent Youmans
Sigmund Romberg
Ray Henderson
Burton Lane
Harold Arlen
Leonard Bernstein
Charles Strouse
Jerry Bock
From reading through the thread, I'm guessing the only reason they've escaped unscathed is A)ignorance of their music altogether or B)people just forgot them.
Let's rack 'em up:
Loesser
Rodgers
Kern
Gershwin
Any other awful artists we forgot to list?"
Some other majors that thankfully, have not been mentioned:
Vincent Youmans
Sigmund Romberg
Ray Henderson
Burton Lane
Harold Arlen
Leonard Bernstein
Charles Strouse
Jerry Bock
Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then stop.
#68
Posted: 2/21/08 at 11:22am
OK, so before I list/add my two cents, I must respond to the POTO hate/love.
My bedroom is done in a POTO theme. I have the entire San Fransico Music Box Company collection settled all around. I have dolls, books, a signed original OBC cast poster lovingly framed by my brother and much more... I have lived and breathed the show since it opened in London almost 22 years ago. Do I think it is the best show ever? No. It is SERIOUSLY flawed. But the music/melodies are not one the "bad" points. The lyrics, the flow, the omissions of the story that he could have added to flesh out Erik/The Phantom more are where Sir ALW failed... But I will defend it to the death *lol*
Now, to the point... Never been one to list my dislikes, only breeds negativity, but I thought I'd follow what a couple of you have done and list my favorites.
Sondheim
Adam Guettel
Gershwin(s)
and most of Sir ALWs works (save STARLIGHT EXPRESS, BEAUTIFUL GAME and S BLVD)
I hope that Rupert Holmes has more in him as DROOD and CURTAINS are two of my favorites ever.
Wildhorn... LOVE LOVE 90% of SCARLET PIMPERNEL and adore J & H... but... yeah, it seems a guity pleasure seeing as most of his stuff sounds a lot alike.
While I love THE PRODUCERES with all my heart and am finding my way into YF, Mel Brooks all sounds the same. Example: LISTEN TO YOUR HEART for Fred and Inga is sooooo much like THAT FACE for Leo and Ulla.
My bedroom is done in a POTO theme. I have the entire San Fransico Music Box Company collection settled all around. I have dolls, books, a signed original OBC cast poster lovingly framed by my brother and much more... I have lived and breathed the show since it opened in London almost 22 years ago. Do I think it is the best show ever? No. It is SERIOUSLY flawed. But the music/melodies are not one the "bad" points. The lyrics, the flow, the omissions of the story that he could have added to flesh out Erik/The Phantom more are where Sir ALW failed... But I will defend it to the death *lol*
Now, to the point... Never been one to list my dislikes, only breeds negativity, but I thought I'd follow what a couple of you have done and list my favorites.
Sondheim
Adam Guettel
Gershwin(s)
and most of Sir ALWs works (save STARLIGHT EXPRESS, BEAUTIFUL GAME and S BLVD)
I hope that Rupert Holmes has more in him as DROOD and CURTAINS are two of my favorites ever.
Wildhorn... LOVE LOVE 90% of SCARLET PIMPERNEL and adore J & H... but... yeah, it seems a guity pleasure seeing as most of his stuff sounds a lot alike.
While I love THE PRODUCERES with all my heart and am finding my way into YF, Mel Brooks all sounds the same. Example: LISTEN TO YOUR HEART for Fred and Inga is sooooo much like THAT FACE for Leo and Ulla.
"TO LOVE ANOTHER PERSON IS TO SEE THE FACE OF GOD"- LES MISERABLES---
"THERE'S A SPECIAL KIND OF PEOPLE KNOWN AS SHOW PEOPLE... WE'RE BORN EVERY NIGHT AT HALF HOUR CALL!"--- CURTAINS
Updated On: 2/21/08 at 11:22 AM
#69
Posted: 2/21/08 at 12:52pm
Just for you, smaxie!
Harry Warren SUCKS!
ALL his songs are CRAP!
"42nd Street" - STUPID song about "dancing feet"!
"You'll Never Know" - Whine, whine, whine.
"On The Atcheson Topeca and the Sante Fe" - DUMB song about a train. And it goes on, like, for-ev-err.
Harry Warren SUCKS!
ALL his songs are CRAP!
"42nd Street" - STUPID song about "dancing feet"!
"You'll Never Know" - Whine, whine, whine.
"On The Atcheson Topeca and the Sante Fe" - DUMB song about a train. And it goes on, like, for-ev-err.
"Hurry up and get into your conga clothes - we've got to do something to save this show!"
Updated On: 2/21/08 at 12:52 PM
#70
Posted: 2/21/08 at 12:54pm
"Jazzysuite- Indeed I have. They aren't funny. Sorry. I think he needs to listen to Sweeney Todd, Sunday in the Park with George, Light in the Piazza, Grey Gardens, Carousel and West Side Story again and finally realize you can be FUNNY in musical plays. That's why they're called musical PLAYS. They should make you LAUGH and CRY."
jv92- Well, what's funny to one person may not be funny to another. I can concede to the fact that you don't find his humor funny. That doesn't make it humorless though. Actually I can sight dozens of plays that don't have side splitting laughter...or even a chuckle. The Crucible comes to mind. I don't remember laughing in that one.
I'm of the mindset that dramatic musicals and plays don't have to have laughing moments, just moments of lightness and relief. I think Ragtime is a great musical but there aren't too many laughs in that, but there is relief from the drama. I feel the same way about Passion. I can name in every single one of LaChiusa's plays several moments of relief. I mean to ME there have been some laugh out loud moments (watching Audra McDonald get high while she sings operatically comes to mind). That's my 2.5 cents.
jv92- Well, what's funny to one person may not be funny to another. I can concede to the fact that you don't find his humor funny. That doesn't make it humorless though. Actually I can sight dozens of plays that don't have side splitting laughter...or even a chuckle. The Crucible comes to mind. I don't remember laughing in that one.
I'm of the mindset that dramatic musicals and plays don't have to have laughing moments, just moments of lightness and relief. I think Ragtime is a great musical but there aren't too many laughs in that, but there is relief from the drama. I feel the same way about Passion. I can name in every single one of LaChiusa's plays several moments of relief. I mean to ME there have been some laugh out loud moments (watching Audra McDonald get high while she sings operatically comes to mind). That's my 2.5 cents.
#71
Posted: 2/21/08 at 1:23pm
If you get past the bad pop arrangements. ALW has some pretty amazing stuff. Some of his earlier overtures are very much like many classical experimental pieces in the 1970's
#72
Posted: 2/21/08 at 3:13pm
ALW will always be my favorite composer, though I can see why people dont like him and there are some pieces(Evita and Woman in White) that I cant deal with.
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#73
Posted: 2/21/08 at 3:13pm
I also love his Variations, especially with his brother on Cello...
#74
Posted: 2/21/08 at 4:24pm
I actually really love the overtures to Cats and JCSS.
#75
Posted: 2/24/08 at 12:57pm
I can't stand Mel Brooks, and most of Elton John.
As for Frank Wildhorn, I don't think he's a great composer but something about his sound is addictive and catchy, and so sometimes I am just compelled to listen.
And Andrew Lloyd Webber- It really depends on the show. Some of his shows are my least favorite shows ever (Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat, Cats) while others are on my favorites list (Jesus Christ Superstar, Evita, Sunset Boulevard).
As for Frank Wildhorn, I don't think he's a great composer but something about his sound is addictive and catchy, and so sometimes I am just compelled to listen.
And Andrew Lloyd Webber- It really depends on the show. Some of his shows are my least favorite shows ever (Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat, Cats) while others are on my favorites list (Jesus Christ Superstar, Evita, Sunset Boulevard).
Updated On: 2/24/08 at 12:57 PM
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