Broadway LPs?

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 1/26/08 at 3:27pm

At the BC/EFA Flea Market, one of the tables gave me a free bag full of vinyl cast recordings at the end of the day. I collect Broadway LPs, so I was thrilled that they let me take as many as I wanted. I have a question about one of them.

The OBCR of "Pacific Overtures" that I took has a gold stamp embossed in the upper righthand corner that says, "Demonstration- Not For Sale." I was curious what the stamp means and if it gives the album any additional value?

Thanks!

Updated On: 3/13/08 at 03:27 PM

[TomMonster]

Posted: 1/26/08 at 3:32pm

it means it was a promotional copy for the press, etc. and cannot be sold in stores. I don't know if it ups the value or not. I doubt it.

However, great find!!

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 1/26/08 at 3:37pm

Thanks Tom! I just found a listing on eBay for a promotional copy going for $70! Not too bad for a freebie at the Flea Market!

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 1/26/08 at 3:58pm

Now I'm trying to find something out about the OBC LP of Kiss Me Kate that I found at a thrift store. I'm pretty sure it is the original pressing, because it is 6 LPs inside a box. The records are very heavy and thick and each contain, I believe only one or two tracks (I'd check but I don't have it with me). I remember reading about the "Most Happy Fella's" original recording which was similarly released with multiple discs, which is what leads me to believe it is the original one.

I only ask, because I can't find anything on this recording. The only OBCs I find are only normal single album releases.

Thanks again!

[Sneezy]

Posted: 1/26/08 at 8:11pm

Those aren't LP's, kiddo. Those are 78 RPM discs. LP stands for Long-Playing, and the reason they were called that is because before you could buy LP's, all you could get were these discs with only about eight minutes of music per side. Even after LP's came out, some albums were still released in 78 RPM format because not everyone had a phonograph that could play LP's. (Like they still will occasionally make cassettes even though almost everyone now can play CD's.) So your big heavy chunk of shellac that contains "Kiss Me Kate" is probably from the same tapes as the original LP version, but broken up on to those six discs. As for the relative value of your find, I'd say it's probably not substantial; there doesn't seem to be huge demand for 78's, and there are millions of them still floating around. If you can find a machine that will play them, you might be amused by how they sound!

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 1/26/08 at 10:05pm

I have the 20th Anniversary MY FAIR LADY with the same stamp...I don't think it changes anything.

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 1/27/08 at 4:33am

Thanks for the information Sneezy! Even still, for the dollar I paid for it, I think it's still a pretty cool relic from that early age of the cast album. I love the history of cast albums, so that is all really interesting to know.

Well, husk, according to eBay it does.

[cfmiller]

Posted: 1/27/08 at 11:06am

Here is the link for Ebay LP in question.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PACIFIC-OVERTURES-ORIG-BROADWAY-CAST-MAKO-PROMO-MINT_W0QQitemZ320135957095QQihZ011QQcategoryZ306QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

I think this item goes to show that you can put whatever price you want on an item-but you have to actually sell the item before you see any money.

I am an avid collector of Cast Recordings on Vinyl, but there is just not that much of a market for them. Only in the rarest circumstances will I pay over $10 for them. They are just too common, and the supply vastly outnumbers the demand. I get most of mine in excellent condition from thrift stores. They charge a buck at the most there.

I go to Ebay often, but it is just too much most of the time. I love it when people think they are going to get $20 for a copy of Hair or My Fair Lady or the Sound of Music. EVERYONE had those records, and yours ain't special. Then, they want to bolster thier profits by charging you $10 for shipping and handling. Please!

PS-I actually knew a fellow collector who would tell Ebay sellers to lower their prices if they expected to sell thier items. The emails he got back were hilarious.

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 12:57am

Are there any LPs that are particularly rare or sought after? I was just given several hundred, including some very obscure titles and productions. Some didn't even show up on ebay?

I'm not looking to sell them, I'm just curious.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 12:59am

Just about anything that has never been issued to cd must have some sort of value.

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 11:29am

Bump

[stagescreen]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 1:02pm

TheActr97J - Unless your turntable has a cartridge/needle to play 78s (not just the speed), you won't be able to play that Kiss Me, Kate album. If your turntable can get up to 78 rpm, it might be worth buying the cartridge for it...78 cartridges can be had for under $20, though it's far greater than what you paid for what is (I'm assuming) your only 78. I find the sound of 78s to be interesting.

Partly the shellac helps give it a more "antique" sound but it won't sound too different than if you played the LP version of the same album. It's wonderful if you do have all the discs and they're in great shape, but there is near zero demand for 78s these days, other than for sentimental reasons.

As for Promotional/DJ/Demonstration copies: if you're trying to sell them, it will add about $1-$5 depending on the condition of the LP and if the regular LP itself is hard to find, but in reality, it's no more valuable than the other LPs. It also helps if the Promo copy has a different cover/liner notes/packaging.

Getting into the selling of LPs is another story, with record stores folding around the country (though not for a lack of LPs), and eBay offering so many choices of people to buy from. I think it would also be difficult to sell LPs online because packing them safely and shipping them can add a decent amount of overhead, one that may not be easily passed on to the customer (without overvaluing the LP).


But for all the LP collectors still out there (myself included), they're so fascinating and worth the effort to listen to...not to mention they look lovely framed on a wall (it's the only way I'll be able to afford a Hirschfeld for some time!)

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 1:24pm

Hey I must have missed this first time around.....

1. Yes, the stamp means the record was freebie, probably sent to radio stations (I work in radio and years ago ALL our Lp's came in either stamped or with a drill hole in the cover.) It has no effect on the market value.

Some labels (Columbia in particular) did special pressings with white labels for radio. It was the same record. The label usually included track timings. (VERY important when you are programming for radio because in a one-hour program you might have 46 minutes of music, 8 minutes of commercials and six minutes of announcer talk.) Sometimes they even put a paste-on on the front cover with track names and times. I have a COMPANY Lp that has this.

2. 78-RPM albums. The very first OKLAHOMA! album was six records but smaller in size..10-inch. (10-inch records played up to 3minutes 45 seconds per side and were used mainly for "pop" songs. The 12-inch records ran to 4 min 40 sec a side and were more for classical.) OKLAHOMA! sold over 1 million copies in its first year of release, so Decca issued a 2-record set Volume Two containing 3 songs they had left out of the first set..."It's a Scandal! It's a Outrage", "Lonely Room" and "The Farmer and the Cowman" (taking up 2 sides of the record.) Volume Two was not as popular, and when Long Playing records came along in 1949, Decca's FIRST Lp was OKLAHOMA! but they only reissued Volume One on Lp. (AT the time it was felt that more than 20 minutes per side was not feasible. There were concerns about distortion as the needle got close to the label.) So from the dawn of the LP era until the CD came out in 1990, the cast album of OKLAHOMA! was incomplete!

Not only OKLAHOMA! Decca also cut songs from the Lp's of CARMEN JONES (2 songs), UP IN CENTRAL PARK (1 song) and made edits in songs on the Lp of SONG OF NORWAY and CALL ME MISTER.

Most cast albums were issued on 10" records but SONG OF NORWAY, CARMEN JONES, CAROUSEL, SHOW BOAT (1946) and KISS ME KATE were issued on 12" 78-s.

You may also find 45-RPM boxed sets of these same shows. Decca issued 45's in 1949 similar to the 78-RPM sets (12 songs = 6 records) but later came "extended play" 45-s which could fit 2 songs per side, making a neat little 3--disc package. Of course to fit the music they had to record at a lower level and there isn’t a lot of bass. But they are fun. (I have Victor's studio cast of Carousel on a 45-EP set like this. Only problem was that the songs were too long...so Victor sped up the master tape pushing everything up in pitch! It's hysterical..as Florence Henderson sings "When I Marry Mr. Snow" the pitch gradually increases so by the end of the side it sounds like you are playing a Chipmunk record!)

3. RARE items

The bottom has really fallen out of the LP market. 10 years ago items like THE GOLDEN APPLE, or the TV cast of LADY IN TEH DARK (with Ann Southern) were so scarce that even fair copies sold on E-bay for between $50 and $100. Now, just about everything of import has come out on CD. (SAY, DARLING just came out..One we never thought would see the light of day on CD..the record has been out of print close to 50 years.)

For many years collectors were after the same handful of Lps...FLAHOOLEY, the 1952 OF THEE I SING, TOP BANANA (All on Capitol), The Dinah Shore CALL ME MADAM, SEVENTEEN, MAKE A WISH (all on RCA Victor), CALL ME MISTER, LOOK MA I'M DANCIN', ARMS AND THE GIRL, MEXICAN HAYRIDE (Decca) but all of these have been re-released on CD. In the 1970s it was not uncommon for these to sell for more than $200 each.

The "holy grail" for cast album collectors is CLOWNAROUND, 1 1974 show that toured arenas. RCA made an LP to be sold wherever the show played but when it folded abruptly all copies of the record were destroyed. Only a very few are known to exist.

The RAREST record of all is the 1954 movie soundtrack of THE CAINE MUTINY which was to have been issued around the time the movie came out but the release was cancelled and again only a couple of legitimate copies are known to exist. (The album has been bootlegged many times, but the boots are clearly identified.)

Lp's are fun: In the 1960s (starting with SOUND OF MUSIC) Columbia released many show albums in elaborate gatefold covers with many pictures from the show inside. To see their package fro ANYONE CAN WHISTLE you would think it was a huge hit.

78 albums need special care as the shellac records break easily. Today it is often hard to find complete sets. Decca’s albums included booklets with a synopsis and all the lyrics.

If you want a list of all 78 sets issued PM me as I have them catalogued.

[theatre2]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 3:48pm

i think that all shows like inner city , jimmy and other that are on lp's should be put on cd so people like me can hear them and they will not fade away forever.

[lildogs]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 4:10pm

Before I moved to NYC, I had ANYONE CAN WHISTLE and NEW GIRL IN TOWN on LP--and SWEENEY and SUNDAY with the booklets--and of course, they're nowhere to be found

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 8:22pm

My mom had an LP of the OBC of Company when she was in college, along with an original program. Of course, she has no idea where they are now. Figures. I would love to see that.

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 10:07pm

Company is the only Sondheim show this woman didn't give to me. She did throw in the original souvenir program from Into the Woods along with the OBCR though.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/13/08 at 10:34pm

Bryan is here a/k/a theater2

[alterego]

Posted: 3/14/08 at 12:27am

frontrowcentre2, interesting what you have to say about vinyl cast albums. I have one that you mentioned the Dinah Shore CALL ME MADAM, it was released by RCA here in Australia in the late 70's and could be bought for $7.99. I think I know where I can find a copy of The Caine Mutiny... I'm now going to check it out.

[TheActr97J]

Posted: 3/14/08 at 1:45am

Thanks for the great response frontrow! I find all this so fascinating!

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 3/14/08 at 8:01am

I have one that you mentioned the Dinah Shore CALL ME MADAM, it was released by RCA here in Australia in the late 70's and could be bought for $7.99.

That is right. By the late 70s there were reports that these 1950s's cast albums were getting high prices, so Capitol and RCA reissued a bunch in 1977/78. Of course they didn't sell well (only a handful of collectors bought them) and were soon deleted. The great thing about these reissues is that the vinyl used in the 70s was much better than the hard plastic used in the early 50s.

The Capitols used the original cover arts and liner notes (but new catalogue numbers: FLAHOOLEY was originally Capitiol LP S-284. The 1977 reissue us T-11649, so there is no way an unscrupulous dealer could pass off the reissue as an "original pressing" and claim big bucks for it.)

The RCA releases (RCA Red Seal - the classical label, not Victor) had new artworks and liner notes. Their ALLEGRO was the first time the album came out using the show's poster art.

Both of these labels deleted cast albums that weren't selling fairly quickly. Columbia held onto most of their catalogue until Clive Davis came along in the late 60s and deleted everything. Goddard Liebersoon came back and re-issued most of it on the Columbia Special Products label that kept some of our favorite flops available at least until the end of the LP era... OUT OF THIS WORLD, MISS LIBERTY, HOUSE OF FLOWERS, and SUBWAYS AER FOR SLEEPING etc.

As for CAINE MUTINY...good luck. If a copy is around it is probably the bootleg. (The record features mostly dialogue and has less than 10 minutes of film score.)

For 78-RPM records, yes you need a turntable that plays 78 speed. Most made until the 1980s had it. More expensive turntables require a special cartridge but with less expensive models with ceramic cartridges you usually just have to flip the needle to play 78's.

Before we had "cast albums" you could buy "Vocal Gems" on 12-inch 78-rpm records. The most popular ones were done for Victor Talking Machine (RCA didn't buy Victor until 1929.) There were not "original casts" but rather a studio chorus, orchestra and soloists doing a 4 1/2 minute medley of some of the hit tunes from current shows. Most featured a different show on each side though a few ran the medley over both sides of the record. MANY early musicals have their ONLY recorded excerpts in these medleys. I collected about a dozen of these discs on 78's. I was so glad when Pearl re-released many on CD's. In fact 4 2-CD volumes covering over 130 musicals and operettas from 1844 to 1929.

Those of you who dislike 1980's cast albums because of sound issues will have a problem with these, but others who want to see what Broadway was like 100 years ago can check out BROADWAY THROUGH THE GRAMOPHONE.

VOLUME ONE covers the early years to 1909:
http://www.amazon.com/Broadway-Through-Gramophone-Vol-1/dp/B0000589ZW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1205494200&sr=8-6

Volume Two covers 1910 to 1914:
http://www.amazon.com/Broadway-Through-Gramophone-Vol-2/dp/B00005CELT/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1205494200&sr=8-9


Volume Three (1914-1919):
http://www.amazon.com/Broadway-Through-Gramophone-Vol-3/dp/B00004S5UY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1205494200&sr=8-2

and the best (I think) is Volume Four (1920-1929):
http://www.amazon.com/Broadway-Through-Gramophone-Vol-4/dp/B00004TFM0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1205494200&sr=8-4

This last is an excellent overview of the 1920s on Broadway.
The first few tracks were recorded "acoustically" with everyone gathered around a large horn, which gathered the sound and channeled it to cut the master record (made of wax.)

By 1925 electric microphones and mixing consoles had been invented and the sudden jump in sound quality is astonishing.

These medleys are great fun and limited to about a minute each no single tune overstays its welcome.

[ErinDillyFan]

Posted: 3/14/08 at 8:42am

Generally promotional and cutouts are worth less than the normal releases. Original pressings are generally more valuable than re-issues just like first addition books.

I have a couple copies of Pacific Overtures that a bought in lots. I got one for 58 cents. Pacific Overtures isn't rare and you can find it many places for <= $6.
Updated On: 3/14/08 at 08:42 AM

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 3/15/08 at 8:22am

Generally ANY cast album that is out on CD has no market value on Lp. Even first edition pressings, which can be noisy if they date from teh pre-stereo days. A few colectors will pay a slight premium for an absolute mint first edition but that premium is only a dollar or two.

Dealers often price these items higher, but they rarely sell.

It has been 25 years now since CD's were introduced. (The earliest CD cast albums I have is LA CAGE AUX FOLLES released Nov 15, 1983.) So an entire generations really knows litle about Lp's (let alone 78's) and have very different standards i terms of audio quality.