Broadway musical revivals. When did this start?

[twinbelters]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:11pm

They are fairly commonplace now, but when did Broadway musical revivals begin? What was the first one? I believe it started during the economic difficulties of the 1970s. I read Michael Bennett called revivals "museum theater" or something similar.

New musicals couldn't gain audiences largely in the 70s so it seems reasonable from a production standpoint that reviving a successful musical would be less risky. Every season was flooded with big money losers, so I get it. But how exactly did it all start? Was there a particular year where business was particularly bad?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:20pm

Did you used to be that Gavin person?

[MusicSnob1]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:22pm

In the 50's. There were a number of Gilbert & Sullivan revivals that had previously played New York in the 1920's and 30's. There are some who believe that revivals started even earlier - perhaps the 30's or 40's - of classic operetta's from the early 1900's.

There is no exact answer to this question... it will always be up for debate simply because we don't have enough historical evidence.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:30pm

New musicals couldn't gain audiences largely in the 70s

Really?

For what it's worth, the first Show Boat revival was in 1932.

[MusicSnob1]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:34pm

Exactly. I don't know where this fool got the 70's as the "beginning" of revivals. That's SO far off!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:41pm

I don't think revivals came into play specifically because someone cynically wanted to make money. I mean, I know that's why SOME come about, but I don't think there was ever a hard and fast rule that once a show left Broadway it would NEVER come back.

Honestly, I don't really understand this thread.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:45pm

Even in the early 1900s (and some earlier than that), popular shows would play a season on Broadway, then go out on the road for a year or so, then (occasionally) return to NY with some from the OBC and some replacements for another run. That would constitute a "revival" today.

http://www.ibdb.com/show.php?id=9434

http://www.ibdb.com/show.php?id=10289

Other shows with early revivals ...

http://www.ibdb.com/show.php?id=8381

http://www.ibdb.com/show.php?id=6445

[MusicSnob1]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:45pm

"Honestly, I don't really understand this thread."

PRS - That could be said for half of the Message Board! xoxoxo

[twinbelters]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 12:57pm

I understand what you are all saying. I wasn't thinking about those early revivals of Gilbert and Sullivan or operettas in general.

I guess I should have specified the post Rodgers and Hammerstein era? When did musicals from post-war post-R&H era start being revived?

Is that specific?

Thanks best12bars for providing some links and actually participating in the conversation.

[madbrian]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 1:24pm

Though not as old as B12B's suggestions, Showboat was revived quite often:

http://www.ibdb.com/show.php?id=7970

[once a month]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 2:15pm

The resurgence may have been over several seasons....No No Nanette....Anything Goes, Carousel, Guys and Dolls, I think they call it reimagining. Until then I believe most shows revived were done so while imitating the original...Peter Pan, Brigadoon, Music Man.

That's my take on it but take it with a grain of salt. I'm 'not educated' other than having been to many productions since 1970 (and an avid AFTER DARK reader).

[MusicSnob1]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 2:18pm

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reimagining

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 2:34pm

Brigadoon was "Revived" several times in the 50's and 60's I believe. I think Oklahoma had 3-4 Broadway productions in the decades after it's debut. Is that what you mean?

I think the question is more "Was there ever a time there weren't revivals?"

[WOSQ]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 3:05pm

To me, the question is not far-fetched.

I have always said that the musical revival craze began Jan 19 (give or take), 1971 with the opening of No, No Nanette on Broadway. It ran two years, had two or three national companies and a London production and made a bloody fortune.

Up to then revivals were done at City Center, Lincoln Center, off-Broadway or were return engagements. That doesn't mean that there weren't some successful revivals up to that point--witness Pal Joey, but Nanette showed that with the right dusting off, good performers and great production values, a show with some (very) familiar songs could be a smash.

PS - The 1971 production of Nanette also had its share of scandal. Buy your own copy of "The Making of No, No Nanette" by Dunn to read how one producer 'stole' the show from the other producer. Look for the book on a used book site like abebooks.com. It will be a permanent fixture in your library.

[twinbelters]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 3:43pm

Yeah, I'm not an expert on revivals--they generally don't interest me. But, they do say something about the economics of Broadway which I am interested in. Here's a breakdown of the 60s - 70s. And before I get my head chewed off the years are the starting year of the season.

1960: --
1961: --
1962: Brigadoon, Pal Joey
1963: West Side Story
1964: Guys and Dolls
1965: --
1966: Annie Get Your Gun (with the Merm)
1967: --
1968: --
1969: The Boy Friend
1970: Johnny Johnson, No No Nanette

1971: On The Town, A Funny Thing...

1972: Man of La Mancha, Irene

1973: The Pajama Game, Candide (definitely revived for creative purposes)

1974: Gypsy, Where's Charley?, Good News

1975: Hello Dolly!, Very Good Eddie, Threepenny Opera (+ a handful of G&S operettas in repertory at the Uris)

1976: Pal Joey, Guys and Dolls, Porgy and Bess, Fiddler on the Roof, The King & I (note: I think this might be the year I'm looking for. Looks a bit like revival-freak-out time)

1977: Man of La Mancha (again?), Hair (kinda soon? 43 perf), Jesus Christ Superstar, Hello Dolly!

1978: Stop the World, Whoopee! (interesting drop)

1979: The Most Happy Fella, OK!

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 3:45pm

Even in the early 1900s (and some earlier than that), popular shows would play a season on Broadway, then go out on the road for a year or so, then (occasionally) return to NY with some from the OBC and some replacements for another run. That would constitute a "revival" today.

Technically, the Tony Committee (and I think the League, too) only considers it a revival if there were more than three years in between productions. That's why GRINCH wasn't eligible for Best Revival last season, and why WHITE CHRISTMAS won't be eligible this season.

[Kad]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 3:49pm

Revivals don't necessarily speak to the economics of Broadway exclusively, as revivals of works have been happening since ancient Greece, though obviously musicals are an extremely recent development in theatre.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 4:04pm

Nobody bit your head off because you mentioned the 70s. Actually, nobody bit your head off period. It was "New musicals couldn't gain audiences largely in the 70s" that left me (and others) scratching my head. Some of the hits of the 70s include
Company
Evita
Sweeney Todd
A Chorus Line
A Little Night Music
Grease
Jesus Christ Superstar
Applause
Annie
Two Gentlemen of Verona
Pippin
The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas

[twinbelters]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 5:59pm

For every one of those musicals there were plenty that closed quickly and lost a ton of money. Some were utter disasters; some received mixed to positive reviews. Once upon a time shows with middling reviews could run a year, but by the 70s the economics of Broadway (and the country) made producing new musicals noticeably restrictive. The economy also forced smaller companies of actors in a production, and further eliminated the separate roles of singers and dancers. As I'm sure you know, the whole mess led in-part to Bennett's innovation of workshopping musicals. (Which, yes, I know "workshopping" wasn't new for theater, but for mounting a full scale Broadway show it was.)

The mid-70s was overrun with bombs from professionals and amateurs alike. I can make lists too!

Lovely Ladies, Kind Gentleman
Soon
Ari
70, Girls, 70
Earl of Ruston
Frank Merriwell
Got Tu Go Disco
Dude
Via Galactica
Mack and Mabel
Goodtime Charley
Rachael Lily Rosenbloom And Don't You Ever Forget It
Wild and Wonderful
Inner City
The Selling of the President
Music Is
Heathen!
Hurry, Harry
Mother Earth
Rockabye Hamlet
Ambassador
Comin' Uptown
A Broadway Musical
Shelter
Smith
Prettybelle
Look to the Lilies
Lolita, My Love (If I could travel back in time.....)
The Grand Tour
But Never Jam Today
and on, and on, and on...

The amount of revivals in a season definitely speaks to the economics of Broadway. It intimates producers weren't as willing to risk developing new musicals due to a perceived financial risk (but when isn't it really?). Backing a revival is a far safer investment and in my previous post you can see the direct reaction in the mid-70s to all the money-losers of the late 60s/early 70s.

Phyllis, dear: No one bit my head off, but you and musicsnob certainly took a negative attitude to my initial inquiry. I'm having difficulty defining what I'm looking for, but I'm finding it by my own research, and a few of you have pushed me in directions. Incidentally, I wasn't even thinking of you when I wrote that. But, really, I would have asked for a cessation of head chewing anyway because there is a dearth of people on this forum who LU-HUVE (love!) to be right. I could easily see someone calling me out saying, "actually that revival of Funny Thing was in 1972" or whatever. I'm not here for that. Thanks for your input.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 6:00pm

One quarter of the longest running Broadway Shows opened in the 70's. (12 out of the top 50)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 6:29pm

The first musical revival as A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum in 1996 and it has been nothing but revivals ever since. That's why I blame Nathan Lane, for making revivals acceptable.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 7:36pm

Actually...the trend began when Pal Joey was revived in 1952 and was more successful than the original production that opened on Christmas Day (!) 1940.

But Kad is right--it's really been going on since Aeschylus first said to Euripedes, "Hey! Remember that big flop you wrote about the dame who killed her husband's mistress? I know this sounds crazy, but maybe it could work if she killed her kids too..."

Updated On: 1/7/10 at 07:36 PM

[twinbelters]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 7:54pm

I understand that revivals, re-imaginings, and return engagements have been around some number close to forever. I was trying to narrow in on modern Broadway musicals, and the trends that have led up to flurries of reviving commercially successful musicals.

I guess I need to be ultra-hyper-specific from this point forward when I place an inquiry on this message board. I don't think, and never thought, that revivals were invented in the 1970s. I have the On Your Toes 1954 revival cast recording, and Showboat's many revivals are known to me.

I was expecting someone to lend their expertise and say, "While it's true that musicals have been revived with fair regularity in the 50s and 60s there was a noticeable spike during the 70s arguably beginning with No, No, Nanette or On The Town....." ....er something. But, I just went ahead and did the work and found that out myself in depth.

Thanks Pal + Kad. I'm good.

[MusicSnob1]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 8:23pm

"I was trying to narrow in on modern Broadway musicals, and the trends that have led up to flurries of reviving commercially successful musicals."

What is modern??? To me, it is one thing...to you, it is something else. Why are you trying to be SO nitpicky? Look at your question: "Broadway musical revivals. When did this start?" - your original question has NOTHING to do with the 70's.

"I guess I need to be ultra-hyper-specific from this point forward when I place an inquiry on this message board."

Sounds like a good plan. Go for it!

"I was expecting someone to lend their expertise and say, "While it's true that musicals have been revived with fair regularity in the 50s and 60s there was a noticeable spike during the 70s arguably beginning with No, No, Nanette or On The Town...."

Then lower your expectations. You can't post a completely wide-open question, on the internet, and demand (basically) a specific answer that YOU like. That's immature and foolish. Get a grip!

"But, I just went ahead and did the work and found that out myself in depth."

So, in theory, this thread taught you that YOU could find the answer with some hard work - all your own! Amazing. See? We learn something everyday. You learned that you could actually be self sufficient; a characteristic that is pratically nonexistant in the current generation of youngsters.

~ With love and happiness, xoxoxox

[TimesSquareRegular]

Posted: 1/7/10 at 9:23pm

Musical revivals have been around for a long, long time, and Chicago is not the first revival to have more success than the original:

PAL JOEY: the original in 1940/41 ran 374 performances, but the 1952/53 revival ran 540 performances.