Calling all lipsyncing experts

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 6:58pm

Expert or not I'm looking for osme opinions here. I'm wondering if there really is a problem with the lipsyncing in the Phantom movie or not. As I type this I have EVITA playing on the screen. Is Madonna more experienced with lipsyncing since she's a pop star and has done music videos before? I remember thinking there was nothign wrong with her or antonio's lip syncing in this movie but did notice weird moments in Phantom. BUT, to make it more confusing, was the prblem that I was LOOKING to hard at the lips to be off in Phantom since people were saying there was a problem?

[mizzie]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:01pm

I haven't actually seen the Phantom movie, from from the clips I have seen, it looks like Emmy Rossum is a good singer - but a pretty bad lip syncher!(sp?) It is very hard to watch the clips of her and not notice I'm afraid. Oh well, I suppose it's just something we'll all have to learn to get used to.

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:03pm

ALL movie musicals are made by dubbing the "prerecorded" soundtrack onto the film. In order to do this the actors must "lipsing"

The problem people have with POTO is that many believe that it is not the actual actor's voices (and this is true with Minnie Driver) that they are lipsinging to.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:03pm

oh, wait. though make sure you see the movie though and then decide because i think that even with computer technology, online videos and clips arent the most reliable as far as audio video matching and clairy.

[newsieboy23]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:04pm

Hmm, hard one. The Chicago movie had a few week points as well (Renee and some cell block girls). But whats funny is that almost ALWAYS, they are singing along (not full voice) to create the same intensity as if they were performing live. I did notice a few weak points though. Evita was fine.... Cats and Joseph were great. Any others with problems?

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:07pm

This gets me closer to believing that ALW should have just let Warner Bros. make the movie then maybe it would have looked as professional as EVITA and CHICAGO did. Phantom is an independent film right?

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:12pm

bronx-I thought POTO was made by WB...I could be wrong though(I love the new avatar)

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:14pm

I'm pretty sure it's a Warner Bros movie. (CarolynW signed her name "WB message board mod" on another POTO thread and I don't see why else she'd feel the need to put that unless WB was involved.)

I don't think it's a hidden secret that the POTO cast lipsynced - as for did they do it well? Well, if Emmy can actually sing like that with her lips moving that slightly (I particularly remember "Think of Me" and "Past the Point of No Return"), she may want to consider a career as a ventriloquist in case this whole acting thing doesn't work out.

[zoran912]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:15pm

Phantom is the farthest you can get from Independent.

[maybethistime]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:20pm

Like earlier said, all movie musicals are made by haveing the actor in a studio sing their songs and then when they are filming they playback the sound and actors either lipsync (as in the syncopation of the actors lips and the song) or sing along out loud (since it will be dubbed over, it doesn't matter). I don't think it is too noticable if you weren't aware, or if you weren't looking for mistakes and thinking about it. In Evita there are some pretty noticable times (for me at least) where it's painfully obvious, but I think in every movie musical (with the exception of Robert Preston who's syncing is AMAZING) if you look carefully, it will aways look a bit off, never perfect. But most of the time you don't notice... it makes to film more enjoyable to just watch. So, yes and no. A times, if your are looking hard, you can notice bits that are off in Phantom, but otherwise no, it isn't a major problem, or obvious to the unsuspecting viewer.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:25pm

Phantom is a WB movie. I just got back. I think, and I said this in another thread, the lipsynching was ever so slightly off at times and I noticed that Emmy does not fully form the words with her lips. If that makes sense. I started paying real attention to this halfway through the movie as it appeared that she was doing a very bad job of lip synching. She really wasn't. It just appeared that way because her lips don't really move when she sings.

[Sally]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:42pm

<< Phantom is a WB movie.>>

It's distributed by Warner Brothers. ALW bought back the rights from Warners. The credits on the ads say,"Warner Bros Pictures presents in association with Odyssey Entertainment [I don't know what Odyssey is] a Really Useful Films/Scion Films production
A film by Joel Schumacher..."

ALW and Really Useful raised the money for the production.

On the Scion films site it says, "Currently we are producing The Phantom of the Opera, the largest independent UK film, in conjunction with Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber's Really Useful Group."

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 8:02pm

ALL movie musicals are made by dubbing the "prerecorded" soundtrack onto the film. In order to do this the actors must "lipsing"

All except HEDWIG AND THE ANGRY INCH, where John Cameron Mitchell sang most of his songs live.

I do think Madonna, having made music videos for 15 years before filming EVITA, knew how to pull off lip-synching to pre-recorded music. However, I think it has to do with comparing intensity: both Madonna and Antonio Banderas move their lips in accordance to how strongly they sang their songs. Most of their songs were performed mid-projection range (sorry I don't know the terminology), except for a few belting numbers like "A New Argentina" and the climax of "Don't Cry For Me, Argentina," and Madonna et al adjusted their lips accordingly.

When Emmy Rossum is singing operaticly -- demanding a large, open O -- and her lips are barely parted, obviously it looks fake.

Updated On: 12/25/04 at 08:02 PM

[Carl Magnum]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 8:07pm

"All except HEDWIG AND THE ANGRY INCH, where John Cameron Mitchell sang most of his songs live."


And Rex Harrison in My Fair Lady, he refused to be tracked.

[actress_06]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 8:37pm

It was said earlier that all movie musicals are lipsynced, but it all depends on the production crew. Some crews make it mandatory that the actors actually perform th esongs and they use that recording for the movie. They just have a prerecorded orchestra. But Other than that most movies do have lipsyncing.

[Mimi Imfurst]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 10:17am

Thank you about the Hedwig point. I was about to make that :) Some tracks in the movie were done pre-recorded, but others were not. It was evidently really hard as it caused strain to his voice.

People make such a big deal about lypsinking, its funny.

[My Fair Lady]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 10:31am

In A Chorus Line, the lip-syncing is really obvious

[LilMiZBroADwaY23]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 3:36pm

I agree with Newsieboy. If you watch the extra features in LSOH, Green sings along with the soundtrack of her pre-recorded voice. I believe if you watch the extras in the Chicago DVD you can also see CZJ doing it also.

But in the Angel of Music clip, that is all I could notice. It irritates me to no end. Practicing it isn't that hard!

[Chloe]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 4:00pm

Well, this is part of my job, so I'll jump in here, for what it's worth. It's unfortunately true that singing live in a movie is very difficult, for the reasons that have been mentioned, and because there are so many technical difficulties in recording good sound in all but a controlled studio environment.

Lip-synching to a pre-recorded track is the norm, and it's can be a problem for several reasons. First of all, it's not as easy as you might think to do, especially if the music has a lot of rubato or the singer tends to take liberties with rhythm as part of his style. If they are off by as much as 1/12th of a second (two frames) it can be quite noticeable.

As some of you have mentioned, another problem is a discrepancy between the physicality evident in the sound and what you're looking at on screen. If the singer just mimes to something sung full out, you'll feel the absence of the strong breathing and physical effort that's required. The reverse can be true. If something is recorded by the singer standing still in the studio, and the scene then requires him to move about a lot, the sound will seem false,

The third thing is more subtle and sort of a pet peeve of mine. The standard way to record a singer is with a very close studio mike. This has quite a different sound from the miking used on a film set, where a short shotgun held about three feet away is usual. That's why the transition between speaking and singing can become so obvious.

I'm not sure how to solve this, as the soundtrack recording really needs to be done with a studio mike, but if I had my way, the pre-recording for use in the film would be done in an ADR studio with a boom operator so the miking would match the rest of the movie sound, and the singer would be free to move around a little.

[Mattio98]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 4:16pm

Well clearly you're very knowledgable on the subject Chloe. Do you think they could just use an iso booth with a shotgun mic hanging from a fairly low ceiling?

[sharon1]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 4:38pm

I think that in the credits the name of two banks, one in Ireland and one in
South Africa are given credit

[Chloe]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 4:53pm

"Do you think they could just use an iso booth with a shotgun mic hanging from a fairly low ceiling?"

No, unfortunately, because a more distant mike in a tiny room would pick up the "sound" of that room - you would hear that it was a little boxy room. ADR studios are large, high-ceilinged, sound-proofed and padded, to create a neutral atmosphere. We also try to match whatever mike was used in the production. The sound mixer can then add the reverb and EQ which are appropriate for the location in the film.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 6:04pm

Also, with EVITA, it was all singing and pretty much no talking and if there was talking it was an isolated scene as oppossed to in Maquerade when Rhoul is speaking with Christine ("But why is it secret? What have see to hide?") where the set mic is a few feet above their head and an OBVIOUS transition to singing ("Chiristine what are you afaraud of?") where the sound coming form a studio mic 6" in front of their mouth.

[shlamdiddly]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 6:10pm

No one in POTO could lip-synch if their life depended on it.

[Chloe]

Posted: 12/26/04 at 6:11pm

Yeah, I hate that. I hope someone working on Rent reads this thread.