Could NIGHT MUSIC ever work as a movie?

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 10:54pm

Could it ever work? With the right director? I know it would NEVER work with Rob Marshall's "characters cannot sing in reality" concept.
I feel like the two hardest numbers to make work on screen would be Liaisons and The Miller's Son, and I would hate to see them cut as they were in the first movie.

If it did happen, I think having Zeta-Jones reprise the role on screen would be inevitable.

Thoughts? Will it ever work, or should it just be left alone?
Updated On: 12/18/09 at 10:54 PM

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 10:58pm

Ljay, I was wondering the same thing, especially with Catherine Z. Jones, a bona-fide film actress, playing Desiree.
I think with the right director it could at least be an interesting movie, although I don't know how it would play with audiences. If it were a film, I think someone like Joe Wright might be an interesting director.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 11:02pm

I think it would. Perhaps the context of "Liasons" would have to be slightly altered, but I think it'd be fine. Same with "The Miller's Son."

[bjh2114]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 11:10pm

I can actually see The Miller's Son working really well. And Liaisons done as a flashback sequence could be absolutely brilliant if done well.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 11:12pm

Hmmm. Liaisons as a flashback might be a good idea. I just feel solo songs being sung to the camera in musical movies don't usually work. Thats why I would be worried about these two numbers.
Updated On: 12/18/09 at 11:12 PM

[B3TA07]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 11:14pm

My initial thought was as a "cautionary tale" + reprimanding Desiree for not respecting her "liasons."

Which, really, is basically what it is, I just don't think it would work how it is in the stage show on film because it doesn't serve a developmental or dramatic purpose in furthering the plot.

And, honestly, it would probably be cut down. Which I'm fine with.

Updated On: 12/18/09 at 11:14 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 11:27pm

Oh and please set this (imaginary) movie in Sweden.

[bjh2114]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 11:36pm

Yah. I feel like Liaisons would be better if it opened with a few seconds of Madame Armfeldt singing to Fredrika as though she were relaying a story. Then it would shift to a flashback of the 3 memories with possible brief returns to the present to examine moments of her disgust ("figs/raisins", etc.). The song could could end with Fredrika asleep on the floor having been bored out of her mind.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 11:56pm

I think it might work as a film, but it would have to go way out of the comfort zone for most filmmakers and audiences. You not only have many songs (Liaisons, Miller's Son, Now, Later, In Praise of Women) where characters are singing their thoughts (aka, sung monologues), but you also have those pesky Liedersingers. We know that cutting the quintet and their "Greek chorus" comments leaves a dull and deadly impression (see previous film version), but including them means that you've got a highly theatrical devise running throughout the movie.

Can they just pop up in Desiree's digs or out from behind a birch tree to sing "Remember?" or "The Sun Won't Set," etc. Won't they look like operatic stalkers? Or Bergmanesque ghosts?

Or could you keep cross-cutting between a period stage play set in Sweden and "real life" in the Swedish countryside? Sort of like the opening sequence in the 1977 movie. I think it would get gimmicky really fast. Although it (sort of) worked in Terry Gilliam's The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.

It would take a director like Baz Luhrmann to pull a film version of Night Music off. Someone willing to break the rules of cinematic storytelling. And I just don't know who the audience would be for this film. Unless they're all running around in lingerie (ala a Rob Marshall musical) and "sexing" it up in the woods, I can't see it turning much of a profit.

Updated On: 12/18/09 at 11:56 PM

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:02am

I think it'd be really tricky and I do wonder how it could be done so they don't lose half the audiences. Though I'm not a purist when it comes to these things, so if the song had to be cut, restructured or whatever to make this work as a film, I'd be okay with that. Now if they cut "Every Day a Little Death" I might lose it.
So movie must shoot on location in Sweden. Maybe directed by Joe Wright, who else do people propose (I think Rob Marshall himself would agree that this is not for him at all)? Perhaps Stephen Daldry? I think that'd be fitting.
So who is in the cast? Catherine Z. Jones and Angela Lansbury reprising their roles or would Lansbury be replaced by someone like Judi Dench or Helen Mirren?

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:05am

Lansbury did say she wants to do one last film. If they were going to make this with Zeta-Jones and Lansbury, I imagine it would need to be made soon.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:12am

The fact that it takes place a hundred years ago lends itself to a sort of otherworldliness in the the way that Sweeney Todd did, I think. Instead of coming up with justifications for why the characters need to sing, I wish directors would work harder and creating worlds where people simply sing.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:15am

I think the answer for many of these sung monologues would be to create "screen business" to be going on while the songs were being sung.

They tried that in the movie for Every Day A Little Death, by having Charlotte sing it while she was riding in the carriage to the Egerman's house. Not inspired, but it worked on a very basic level. The point is that you can't have any character just stand or sit and sing one of these monologue/songs. The story needs to keep moving forward.

For example, with Liaisons, you could have Mme. Armfeldt start this song while she's in her bedroom looking at her jewelry. Then you could have it continue as a voice-over while we see Desiree and Frederik having their "cheap, no frills" affair in the theatre dressing room. Meanwhile her mother is singing about her affairs with kings and dukes, etc. They could be going on simultaneously on screen, which would keep the story moving forward.

Still can't figure out what to do with those Liedersingers ...

[bjh2114]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:15am

I actually think it wouldn't be as tricky to pull of as people think. It's one of Sondheim's most cinematic show to begin with. I agree that the Liedersingers would be the trickiest part to pull off, but I still think it's doable.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:17am

Phyllis, I agree with you, and I think that Tim Burton did that well, Bill Condon failed at it miserably, and well Chris Columbus...
Besty, I agree with you. I still wonder how numbers like "Now/Later/Soon" and a few others would work for a film.

[bjh2114]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:25am

I honestly think that Now/Later/Soon could work exactly as it already is in the show. Even though they are individually "monologues" they benefit from the fact that they all tie together. So "Soon" doesn't have to be shots of just Anne singing into the camera. It can move from Frederik to Henrik and back to her, etc. And the trio at the end could be done beautifully. Honestly, I think Clowns has the potential to be the most awkward to film.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:25am

Now/Later/Soon would have to be trimmed carefully. They go on WAY too long for a film. That whole Egerman sequence is about 20 minutes long with the dialogue. Ten (total) would be good enough to establish these characters, their wants and desires, and get on with the plot.

And I think Burton failed far worse with Sweeney by cutting all the choral singing. A stupid mistake, because he doesn't "get" people singing together in unison. When actually that's more likely to happen in real life in a bar or tavern than someone singing solo (unless that person is doing karaoke).

And I don't like his "twisted cartoonish" world in Sweeney. It's too surreal and just as bad as putting the whole thing in someone's mind to justify the singing. Night Music may be a period piece, but it's not a fantasy or a legend. It's a romantic comedy about (supposedly) real people.

Sweeeny Todd (the movie) has managed to get worse and worse for me with repeat viewings, not better.

Updated On: 12/19/09 at 12:25 AM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:31am

I dunno. I think my taste in movie musicals doesn't jibe with most people's.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 2:04am

Maybe the Leidsingers are the Eggerman and Armfeldt butlers and maids, and they all get together for a weekly poker game and whenever they sing it's at their poker game.

[artscallion]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 8:45am

Hey, if they can get Oompa Loompas to work, the Liedersingers should be no problem.

I think a film could work. I just don't think enough of the general public understand musicals to make it any kind of success. I think Chicago was a novelty and a fluke. Every time I talk about a musical to someone outside of my theatre world circle of friends, they always get a confused look and ask, "but why are they singing? I don't get it." There's a disconnect there, which I find odd considering these people were raised on music videos.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 11:28am

Hairspray and Mamma Mia each created worlds where the characters just burst into song. The success of those could be attributed to their casts or ABBA or whatever, but they were still hits.

I feel about Dreamgirls the way best feels about Sweeney Todd. Upon repeated viewings it just doesn't hold up.
Updated On: 12/19/09 at 11:28 AM

[James885]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 11:44am

Phyllis, I agree with you. One of things I didn't like about Dreamgirls was that it didn't seem to know what kind of musical it wanted to be. When I first saw it I knew nothing of the show and I thought it was going to be a musical where all the songs were done in performance. So 35 minutes later when the first 'book' song comes in, it was a little jarring.

Hairspray and Mamma Mia established right off the bat that this was going to be a movie musical where people burst into song. One thing I liked about Sweeney Todd was that the characters didn't randomly burst into song. The dialogue and songs blended together so well so that when they did sing, it felt totally natural.

[bk]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 11:48am

I don't understand all this "singing to the camera" stuff. I've seen few film musicals where people sing to the camera. They sing to many other things but not the camera. I keep bringing this up, but why is it that when I show classic film musicals to kids they never have a problem when someone starts singing. NEVER. You set the world of the film, you set the rules of the world and if you're good and the material is good the audience will follow. If you build it they will come. When Shirley Jones starts singing Goodnight, My Someone no one faints away dead from shock. When Riff starts singing the Jet Song no one runs screaming from the theater. When Julie Andrews bursts into the title song at the beginning of The Sound Of Music it's enthralling, not troubling. Just bloody DO it. The Sound Of Music is filled with numbers - people sing. It's also cinematic beyond belief in a way the stage show never was. Julie A. is not singing to the camera. What is that?

[bk]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 11:50am

"I actually think it wouldn't be as tricky to pull of as people think. It's one of Sondheim's most cinematic show to begin with."

I love the score to A Little Night Music - one of Sondheim's finest. But Sondheim is not the only author of the show - the little thing I like to call the book is by Hugh Wheeler and I'm sure that Harold Prince and Mr. Wheeler had a lot of input into how the show flows and its cinematic quality.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 1:10pm

Oh, I definitely think it could work as a film, just not a film with a wide audience.

But if Ingmar Bergman can do extreme close-ups of actors' faces during monologues, singers could be shown singing solos, with and without montages depicting backstory.

And the Liedersingers cannot be servants. Class structure is an important part of the story, and the experiences they sing of in "Remember" are middle-class class experiences they actually had, while Petra's song depicts the one-and-only opportunity available to her with the miller's son, and the fantasies she has in the meantime.

But it wouldn't be as popular as Chicago: It lacks sex and murder and half-naked women. It could never be more than "caviar to the masses."

Like a movie-musical version of "Smiles of a Summer Night."