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#26

re: Curtains For Connie.

For a split second I read this thread title and thought someone was bringing Kander & Ebb's 'Curtains' over to London...

Can't say I've watched much of any of the ALW reality shows, but the runners-up seem to get a pretty good deal in the variety of roles open to them and have less chance of being typecast/ scrutinised / villified in their subsequent careers. That being said, it appears a bit of a kick in the teeth to the many talented performers who didn't get through if the winner walks away from it all to pursue TV work. So much for a dream come true...

Seen some shows in my time....
#27

re: Curtains For Connie.

meh good riddance. i hate her as a performer. dull and boring. bad voice. and all this bull about her voice being bad blah blah.... im not being funny people byt she couldn't sing before she even got the role.

she's one of those performers who can individually perform a song ok... put her in a show and she bombs.

NEXT

(get her off the tour too!!!)

and as for 'probably be my last musical'.... love this is your only musical!!! (other than TPOS)

i agree with whoever said about gems tv... she'd be great on that.... AS INTEFERENCE!

Right rant over... back to decent performers haha.
x
"Lateness is a choice" - Sir Trevor Nunn
#28

re: Curtains For Connie.

Saying it will "probably be my last musical" is a stupid thing to say. Even if she is thinking it, she should keep her options open and at least appear to be more grateful for what she's been allowed to do. She should have said "I want to try a few different things next" or similar.

I don't actually have a problem with anyone in any career deciding to take things in a different direction or adding some strings to their bow. A lot of singers and actors give presenting a whirl, often as a short term thing to keep them busy between other projects. It's a good way to maintain your profile, if there would otherwise be gaps. If Connie were to be picking new roles very carefully, and doing some presenting while she was waiting for the right part to come along, that would make sense to me. But she does make it sound like she's turning her back on musicals, so that isn't good.
#29

re: Curtains For Connie.

She was fab In 'Theyre Playing Our Song', i'll give her that.
#30

re: Curtains For Connie.

Have to say that I never warmed to Connie very much, but I always thought the criticism over the 8 shows a week thing was totally unfair. "Maria" is a very vocally demanding role and it just wasn't reasonable to have her do 8 shows a week. It was effectively exploitation to maximise ticket sales at her expense. Damage was caused, and she is very likely still paying for that.

I never saw her in "They're playing our song", but I accept Mamma's good (fab!) opinion. Different roles obviously suit different peeople. And there is certainly no question that she can sing very well indeed (saying she can't is just too daft), apart from anything else she didn't come out top of her class at Mountview for nothing. But I always thought there was a bit of a problem in terms of what she would be perceived as suitable for. That Julie Andrews thing she has going on, and her manner, just isn't very attractive and isn't very versatile. And I can't see it working for her better on television. Quite the reverse actually. I saw the play she did, and I didn't think that did her any favours. Unless the Welsh connection works for her on Welsh television, I can't see her getting presenting work either. There are some glaring exceptions whose presence on screen in beyond understanding, but generally, you need to be engaging to work as a presnter. And she doesn't engage!
#31

re: Curtains For Connie.

I have said it before and will say it again, people who say that the role of Maria is so vocally demanding that it requires an alternate miss the point that when the show was first done, Mary Martin managed 8 shows. Ethel Merman managed 8 shows in Gypsy (as did LuPone recently). Julia McKenzie did 8 shows a week of On The Twentieth Century - a much more demanding part vocally. They did it (apart from LuPone) with no head mics.
There may be shows where an alternate is necessary, Sound of Music is not one of them.
I have no issue with Connie Fisher she was good in the role and sang it pretty well. My issue is with people who pander to the notion that people can't do 8 shows.
#32

re: Curtains For Connie.

Exactly. There really is no excuse for less than 8 shows a week.
#33

re: Curtains For Connie.

Yes, there is an excuse for not doing 8 shows a week. Our bodies are actually not designed to sing and there are serious medical repercussions from stressing the voice. Throwing the inappropriately trained and/or inexperienced in the deep end is simply irresponsible!

"Maria" IS actually quite a taxing role and a one day rest a week is NOT enough. That some can, or have, done the 8 is not the point. There is both short and long term risk attached that should not be discounted. And no one should be obliged to risk their health in the name of entertainment and certainly not just to pander to presumption.
#34

re: Curtains For Connie.

Tell that to Mary Martin, Nancy Dussault, Martha Wright, Jean Bayless, Marie Osmond, Rebecca Luker and Laura Benanti. Just a small sampling of the large number of women who've made it through 8 performances a week as Maria for an extended period of time.
#35

re: Curtains For Connie.

Exactly! There are plenty of people who can do eight shows a week, so why cast someone who can't? That's what there's "no excuse" for.

In any other job, if you're not skilled enough to do it full-time while other people are, then you wouldn't get hired.
#36

re: Curtains For Connie.

Sorry ladybegood,I have to say that is still nonsense. 1000's of performers have happily sung their way through 8 shows a week with no damage to health or voice. Many of them in more taxing roles than Maria. The people who can't manage 8 are very much in a minority.
I would say that if someone does not have the health, stamina or vocal training to do 8 shows a week, then they should be looking at a different profession.
I do think it is a nonsense that Nancy in Oliver! does 6. Julia Sutton played that part on the original production and is still managing 8 performances 45 years later. She isn't the exception.The people you are concerned about are! 8 shows is nothing new and they must have been aware of the demands. If they can't od it, get the training or technique to do it or don't do it.
#37

re: Curtains For Connie.

Agreed that 8 shows should be what we expect-particularly from someone who has had 3 years training to in theory be able to do that.

Of course this also opens the debate of casting via TV popularitly contests, because no producer would cast the role via normal channels for only 6 out of 8 from the outset. (or whatever it was)
Maybe I'm on nobody's side http://phdconfessions.blogspot.com/
#38

re: Curtains For Connie.

I do think it is a nonsense that Nancy in Oliver! does 6.

And she's already had to take some medical leave due to vocal problems!
#39

re: Curtains For Connie.

Ladybegood- you are talking crap my dear as everyone on here will tell you, utter crap.
The training today isn't anywhere near the training performers were getting when these shows where first produced.
Merman and Martin are turning in their grave at the way todays performers go on and on and and on about not doing 8 shows a week!
Its their profession and if they aint up to it, do something else and let REAL performers get the parts they deserve!
#40

re: Curtains For Connie.

Well Done Mamma *standing ovation* x
Jesus Loves You... Everybody else thinks you're an idiot!
#41

re: Curtains For Connie.

Amen to that Mama!

And to add my 2p equally you could argue our bodies aren't designed to sit in front of computers all day/fight fires/talk all day to screaming children but people whose job it is to do it do it.
Maybe I'm on nobody's side http://phdconfessions.blogspot.com/
#42

re: Curtains For Connie.

'Our bodies are actually not designed to sing and there are serious medical repercussions from stressing the voice'
-the most ridiculous statement ever!

That is what the training is for!
#43

re: Curtains For Connie.

Oh you stupid people! You are letting your prejudices affect what should be common sense and proper understanding.

Even those who are properly trained risk serious long term medical problems. Try asking the specialist doctors about it!
#44

re: Curtains For Connie.

Well i for one worked for years in West End musicals in high energy all out dancing and singing roles and i did 8 shows a week and publicity. The only time i ever had off was due to a dislocation in my knee, but i was only off for a couple of days.

I performed through flu many times, bad throats, broken toe, sprained wrist etc. As a performer these are all things you are prepared for.

The human body is not trained to do many things when it comes to work, but we train them to do these things. Its more about looking after your voice/body etc to get through it.

Ive never worked on a show where someone only does certain performances or has to keep having time off for throat problems, im not saying it does not happen, but the fact it keeps happening to these reality show winners is a sign that not just anyone can walk in to theatre.

It IS demeanding doing that many shows a week (im done with musicals now and far to unfit to do it, now i stick with plays lol) but its going to be 10 times more demanding to someone who does not do it in regular intervals.

Generations of performer have (and will contine) the 8 shows a week contracts. Simple fact is she could not handle it.

You cant have a go at peoples prejudices to be clouding their judgement as the same could be said for your opinions because you are obviously a fan of her's.

Have you ever done 8 shows a week, week in and week out?

Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna

Updated On: 8/5/09 at 02:29 PM

#45

re: Curtains For Connie.

There are quite a few examples of trained professionals who choose to work less than eight shows a week for various reasons and I really think it's up to the people doing the contracts to decide whether or not this is acceptable to them.

In other professions, job-share is becoming more and more common. I work full-time myself, but I work closely with job-share people who make up a full time post. There has been a lot of talk in the news lately, and for many years about the number of hours that a junior doctor ought to work. It has now been cut back to 48, which some think is far too low. It isn't that long ago that a working week of over 100 hours was normal, and some of the old guard consider it to be an important initiation into the profession, but at what costs to the patients as well as the personal health of those doctors. Or perhaps more realistically, how many potentially good doctors didn't consider the career because they knew their bodies couldn't take that strain?

I'm not saying that working eight shows a week is anything like working a 100 hour week where you are responsible for lives, never mind going down a mine or any of the other really tough jobs out there, but I don't think it is much of an argument in any profession to say that because others have worked those hours in the past it is essential that everyone continues to do so in the future.

In other lines of work, flexible working has become common-place and if you can find someone willing to job-share, it shouldn't be a problem. I'd say it's easier than in my line of work, because singer A doesn't need to check whether or not singer B completed a particular piece of work to know where to pick up from.

I'm not that keen on people coming into work when they've got the flu either. I'm all for performers putting in the effort because the show must go on, but I don't think the industry should be proud of having its workers putting themselves at risk of more permanent damage by working through injury or a throat infection. It doesn't make sense in the long-term, but that is the problem with short-term contracts - the presure is on the performer to fulfil that contract in order to get a new one. In a more stable profession, a sensible employer will take a longer term view themselves and make sure that the employee doesn't over-do it.

I'm not saying that people should stay at home at the first sign of the sniffles and clearly good training, preparation and a committment to stay fit and healthy is essential for anyone wanting to take to the stage in a professional capacity. But I do think the all or nothing view should be irrelvant to those of us who aren't directly involved.
#46

re: Curtains For Connie.

ladybefoolish -
Nothing to do with prejudice at all. I am not bashing Fisher but your posts seem to ignore most of the evidence about being able to do 8 shows. Would you be able to cite the doctors who say that performing 8 shows is not possible?
You are ignoring the fact that for decades, 1000's of performers have been performing 8 shows a week with no damage to voice or health.
Really when it comes to stupidity, you should look back at your own posts, which seem to be written without much knowledge and ver little grace.
#47

re: Curtains For Connie.

Pleeeease!
Get a life!
#48

re: Curtains For Connie.

Paterson if everyone took days of work because of a bad throat or a bit of flu nobody would be in work. Especially in musical theatre, after awhile in long runs your throat is constantly feeling strained etc, you are using it all the time, as long as you look after it when you are off stage then its fine

I also dont think performers doing 3 hours a night is to much to ask for when doctors are sometimes working 20 hr days
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#49

re: Curtains For Connie.

I know it's not the same, which is why I said so. The point was that just because people have always done it that way doesn't mean it has to continue to be done that way. However, the point stands that there were crusty old doctors who complained when hours were cut to a maximum of eighty a week, and they argued that they managed it and anyone who can't shouldn't be in the job.

The important thing is whether or not the service is provided, and it really shouldn't matter if two actresses share a role or not.

It may depend on your definition of flu, but I'm guessing when you say "a bit of flu" you mean a minor cold. That is a different matter, but at the same time, anyone who turns up to work with an infectious disease risks passing on that infection to everyone they are working with. I know how tempting it is, and I've done it myself, convincing myself that I needed to turn up, but in retrospect, there were several times when it would have been better for everyone if I'd been less proud and stayed at home for a day or two. Planning extra rest time for performers helps to avoid that issue in the first place.

It's all very well that some people are happy to have a throat that is constantly strained, but is it really that wrong to take steps to avoid that happening in the first place? As a customer, I sometimes think that it sounds as if people are singing with a strained voice, but it doesn't make me feel better that they are putting the work in. Obviously I don't want shows cancelled because no-one has turned up for work, but I'd much prefer it if those who were there were fit and healthy and performing at their best, not just hanging on in there.

I've often read reviews where someone says they were disappointed by a particular performer, then someone else chips in to say that they were coming down or recovering from a throat infection, so they should be excused. It is part of the job, and always will be, but I'd rather see a well practiced and respected alternate than a lead with a noticable vocal problem or an underrehearsed understudy who might also be coming down with whatever it was that the lead was coughing over everyone the night before.
#50

re: Curtains For Connie.

Personally i think she was being a bit of a diva... we were always taught at drama school that 8 shows was just what you did. It wasn't a case of if you hit 6 then a producer would be happy... it goes (or should) go hand in hand with the job. As for Jodie i think her alternate had a lot to do with Cameron... he bought over an award winning Nancy from Australia with incredible talent and flair for the role... and do you remember his face when she won? I think it was a bit more personal than professional with that one. Just my opinion so please don't throw knives at me lol.
Jesus Loves You... Everybody else thinks you're an idiot!

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