"Dames" - Will it be the OBC?

[Ranger Tom]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 7:17pm

I believe this was discussed elsewhere but I can't find it and I don't remember the answer:  Will the upcoming Dames at Sea be considered the Original Broadway Cast production, with the actors "originating" the roles?  

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 7:19pm

Just as Cinderella and the Little Shop of Horrors "Revival", the actors originated the roles ON BROADWAY but not in their original productions whether it was off-Broadway, on film/TV, etc.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 7:20pm

I don't get your question. Are you saying if it's considered a revival?

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 7:24pm

I think he's asking: in terms of "originating" the role, would Lesli Margherita, Mara Davi, etc. be considered the original Broadway cast. 

Yes, they are the original Broadway cast and will have originated the roles on Broadway. But at the same time, the actors from the show's original premiere production originated the roles THEN.

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 7:33pm

Wait, what? Ranger Tom, are you asking regarding the production's potential Tony consideration?

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 7:55pm

Would it be considered a revival?

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 8:06pm

I never understood why Rodgers and Hammerstein's Cinderella was considered a revival at the Tonys that year. It had never been produced on Broadway before in any incarnation. I would have thought it completely eligible as a new musical, no different from Fun Home or Crazy for You.

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 8:08pm

From this past season's Tony Award rules:

(g) Classics. A play or musical that is determined by the Tony Awards Administration Committee (in its sole discretion) to be a “classic” or in the historical or popular repertoire shall not be eligible for an Award in the Best Play or Best Musical category but may be eligible in the appropriate Best Revival category, if any, provided it meets all other eligibility requirements set forth in these Rules.

(h) Revivals. Each year the Tony Awards Administration Committee shall determine whether there shall exist in quality and quantity a sufficient number of Revivals to merit the granting of an Award for Best Revival of a Play or Musical and, if so, the Tony Awards Administration Committee shall also determine whether there shall be a separate Play and Musical Revival category; provided, however, that if there are at least three such plays and three such musicals, there shall automatically be separate Play and Musical Revival categories. A “Revival” shall be any production in an eligible Broadway theatre of a play or musical that: (A) is deemed a “classic” or in the historical or popular repertoire in accordance with paragraph 2(g) above; (B) was previously presented professionally at any time prior to the 1946-47 Broadway season in substantially the same form in the Borough of Manhattan (other than as a showcase, workshop or so-called “letter of agreement” production) and that has not had a professional performance in the Borough of Manhattan at any time during the three years immediately preceding the Eligibility Date; or (C) was previously presented professionally at any time during or after the 1946-47 Broadway season in substantially the same form in an eligible Broadway theatre and that has not had a professional performance in the Borough of Manhattan at any time during the three years immediately preceding the Eligibility Date. The determination that a play or musical is ineligible in the category of Best Play or Best Musical shall not, in and of itself, make the play or musical eligible in a Best Revival category unless the play or musical also meets the requirements of this paragraph. Regardless of whether a production of a play or musical is eligible for a Best Revival category, the elements of the production shall be eligible in those categories in which said elements do not, in the judgment of the Tony Awards Administration Committee, substantially duplicate any prior presentation of the play or musical, except as prohibited by paragraph 2(l) of these Rules; provided, that the play or musical otherwise meets all the requirements set forth herein for Revivals. 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 8:14pm

Yes, Ado Annie, it IS different from Fun Home or Crazy For You. This question has been coming up a lot in the last few years, because we're getting more and more revivals of shows that have never played on Broadway. Here's the basic thing you need to know: just because it's never been on Broadway before, doesn't mean it isn't a revival. If the producers of the show decided to REVIVE a show that has already been written, it's a revival. EVEN IF IT'S NEVER BEEN ON BROADWAY BEFORE. There's even a clause about it in the Tony awards rules. I believe people refer to it as the "classics clause." (EDIT: see the post above mine) For Fun Home, they decided to take a production from Off-broadway and transfer it to Broadway, and because it was the original production of a new musical, it was considered an original musical. This has been the case with an increasingly high number of revivals, including but not limited to:

 

Assassins

Little Shop of Horrors

Violet

Cinderella

Hedwig

The Cripple of Inishmaan

This is Our Youth

Lady Day

 

And Dames at Sea will be the same. It'll be considered a revival because that's exactly what it is: a revival. 

Updated On: 8/21/15 at 08:14 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 8:23pm

They will originate the roles on Broadway, but no, they won't be considered having originated the roles. 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 8:27pm

EDIT: PRS beat me to it while I was typing. :) 

 

My post above was mostly in response to Ado Annie D'Ysquith, but to address the OP's question:

 

They will be considered the original BROADWAY cast, but no, they will not be viewed by anyone as having "originated" the roles. So many people have played the roles before them. Even though we often use the word "originate" even when OBC members take over the role from other people (like in workshops, or Off-Broadway, or out of town tryouts), it just really doesn't apply to the roles in this show, which have been played by so many people over the years. 

Updated On: 8/21/15 at 08:27 PM

[Ranger Tom]

Posted: 8/21/15 at 10:57pm

Thanks all.  Great info on originating the roles.  I appreciate the schooling.  Didn't really think of Tony consideration when I asked.  Just wondering if it would be considered a revival.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 8/22/15 at 12:00pm

The addition of the "classics" clause to the tony award rules should be called the "Fortune's Fools" clause. In 2002 one of the nominations for Best Play was Ivan Turgenev's "Fortune's Fools" which was written in 1848. Though it had become a classic it had never been performed on Broadway and was technically able to get nominated for best new play, which of course was absurd. That prompted the Tony Award Committee to write the now "Classics" clause to the rules on nominations.