Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET? — Page 3

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#51

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 11:44am

I'm not sure I agree about everyone's devotion to 8 1/2 clouding their judgment on NINE. I think most film critics who know and revere Fellini's original would recognize that NINE is an adaptation of it, no more, and that certain changes were going to be made.

The problem isn't so much allegiance to 8 1/2, as it is NINE being such a lousy movie in and of itself.

"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/

#52

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 3:31pm

The plot to "8 1/2" and "Nine" are somewhat different. ("8 1/2" actually doesn't have much of a plot). The stage adaptation, most importantly, made Louisa a full partner to Guido. He takes her with him to hide at the spa. She talks to the reporters for him. When he is at his worst, it she SHE who calls Claudia to help him. Guido is not the complete cad who brings his mistress with him. Carla just shows up when word gets to her that he's there. He still has no idea what movie to make, and lies to his producer that there's a script, but its hardly in the casting/costuming/set building stage. But meeting with Claudia, he gets the spark of an idea, and asks her to star in a film that is very Felliniesque...a costume drama on the life of Casanova that is a roman a clef based on his own circumstances (right there, more of a plot than either film). "Nine" actually treats all the women much kinder than either "8 1/2" or the film "Nine". Especially Louisa. She is very strong in the play. Her final stage number is definitively "kiss off" "Be On Your Own". A command. The film number is reductive and exasperated. Carla is allowed some dignity as she leaves Guido on her own accord. The stage Claudia is actually shown to be the muse both films merely claim she is. It seems to me the screenwriters and director had very little interest in making a movie version of the musical "Nine". They just wanted to remake "8 1/2".

#53

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 4:03pm

...

#54

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 4:13pm

I'm not sure why it's okay to say it wasn't very good but if you take the leap and say it was abysmal you're a bitter show queen or whatever.

Seriously, you know who the only people are who call others bitter show queens? Bitter show queens.

#55

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 4:14pm

What about the scene with Carla and Guido, where he wants her to be all whored up and act like she entered the wrong room? Was that in the play, too, or was it just lifted from 8 1/2?

#56

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 4:18pm

I like Chicago, but I don't think it's hard to make a movie as deadpan and cynical as that one. Nine was more than Marshall could handle.

"The gods who nurse this universe think little of mortals' cares. They sit in crowds on exclusive clouds and laugh at our love affairs. I might have had a real romance if they'd given me a chance. I loved him, but he didn't love me. I wanted him, but he didn't want me. Then the gods had a spree and indulged in another whim. Now he loves me, but I don't love him." - Cole Porter

#57

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 4:23pm

Bitter show queen!

#58

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 4:23pm

The scene between Carla and Guido was a complete "Nine the movie" creation, but closer to "8 1/2" than the play "Nine".

#59

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 6:10pm

"The scene between Carla and Guido was a complete "Nine the movie" creation, but closer to "8 1/2" than the play "Nine""

In the script of the musical there is a moment where Guido puts Carla into a nun's costume, which is a replica of the costume that Saraghina is initially wearing. So the movie just has him replicate Saraghina's makeup on Carla instead of her costume.

#60

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 8:30pm

The scene between Carla and Guido was a complete "Nine the movie" creation, but closer to "8 1/2" than the play "Nine".

So it was not in the play? Because it WAS in 8 1/2.

#61

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/20/10 at 10:40pm

Just got home from seeing it.

It was what it was and you know I liked it.
But the big problem it had was Marshall forgot to tell people what the main story was about. One of the ladies I saw it with who has never seen 8 1/2 or the stage musical was lost on what the title meant.

I also agree with who ever said that "Be on your own" should never have been cut, the film made Louisa out to be weak and she was never that.

A way better Film than the hot mess Chicago was.

Well I didn't want to get into it, but he's a Satanist. Every full moon he sacrifices 4 puppies to the Dark Lord and smears their blood on his paino. This should help you understand the score for Wicked a little bit more. Tazber's: Reply to Is Stephen Schwartz a Practicing Christian

#62

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/21/10 at 2:44am

"One of the ladies I saw it with who has never seen 8 1/2 or the stage musical was lost on what the title meant."

Really? That was like, the LEAST problematic thing in the movie. If you know nothing else about the whole background of it, it's said at least once that the movie that Guido is struggling to make is his ninth movie.

"Your lyrics lack subtlety! You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!"

#63

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/21/10 at 2:58am

Do they really? I don't remember hearing that at all.

#64

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/21/10 at 3:18am

But thats not what the story is about anyway, and I have to agree with Ms Rogers Stone, that I did not remember hearing that at all.

One just hopes that they filmed all the cut songs and one day it will see the light of day..

#65

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/21/10 at 9:53am

There are THREE references to "nine" in the movie.

1) It's Guido's ninth film. They announce it at the opening press conference.

2) The lyric "my body's nearing fifty as my mind is nearing ten."

3) During "Folies Bergeres," Judi Dench spots the child Guido in the audience, and calls him up on stage. "Guido Contini! You shouldn't be here at all. You're only nine years old!"

Did you guys actually see the movie or just wince through one eye with your fingers in your ears the whole time?

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#66

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/21/10 at 9:55am

And for the record, there are NO references to 8 1/2 in the movie "8 1/2."

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#67

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/21/10 at 11:25am

"But thats not what the story is about anyway..."

Maybe not directly, but it's hardly the least appropriate title in the history of cinema.

"Your lyrics lack subtlety! You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!"

#68

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/22/10 at 1:02am

I forgot that he directed "Memoirs of a Geisha"...which I LOVED and have read the book twice.
He did a VERY good translation of the screen for that.

I think that "NINE" would be a very difficult film to direct...no matter what "version" you used.
But I would think that he made it what he wanted and would be pleased with what he did...so how upsetting that almost everyone else wanted something more.

I think it would have been better with a better ending.

#69

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/22/10 at 1:40am

Also...does anyone know why they changed Lilliane LaFleur to Lilli?

Her role did change from "boss" to confidant...not sure if that was something they felt Guido needed or what.

Also, is it me or does "Cinema Italiano" seem to stick out like a sore thumb with it's "club/dance" type beat.

On the flip side, the only time I had ever heard the name (or word) Guido was with "NINE". Then I started to watch "Jersey Shore"......

#70

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/22/10 at 6:13am

No, I didn't wince at all. I just didn't catch those references, like a few others, obviously. Not really knowing the stage show, I thought there was a title song, but I wasn't sure.

The only time I really ever winced was when Sophia Loren was on.

#71

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/29/10 at 8:18pm

I'm not 100% convinced that Rob THOUGHT anything. He's not the typical looking-for-success-in-Hollywood type. He had the opportunity to create his vision of Nine and he did it. He actually recently did an interview where he acknowledge that some people may have been expecting something different than what was produced and seemed at peace with what he created regardless of public reaction. Remember, he still has the stage to fall back on. Hollywood is not his home and he seems to realize that.

#72

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/29/10 at 8:32pm

And I know there are no references to 8 1/2 in 8 1/2, but I thought (and turned out to be correct) that there was in this musical once a song called Nine.

I'm not 100% convinced that Rob THOUGHT anything.

I think that clearly sums up the movie.

#73

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/30/10 at 10:28pm

I wish the ones who hate this film for not being the show would just come out and say it. I knew from the moment the film was announced that there were going to be purists who, even before seeing the film, would hate it for not being directed by a Broadway director, for not including Broadway actors and for not being the Broadway show, verbatim. The same is true of the 8 1/2 fanatics who never once uttered a word against the musical until now. There isn't anything actually WRONG with the film. Its just pure bias that's spurring the negative reaction to this film, which is fine by me just so long as those carrying it own up to it.

Updated On: 1/30/10 at 10:28 PM

#74

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/30/10 at 10:31pm

See, I never saw the stage version. And I saw 8 1/2 for the first time about a week before I saw this, so that hardly makes me a fanatic.

I had no bias. Indeed, I wanted to like it. But it's not a good movie.

There isn't anything actually WRONG with the film.

On the contrary, there a LOT of things wrong with the film.

#75

Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?

Posted: 1/30/10 at 10:54pm

"There isn't anything actually WRONG with the film."

To paraphrase Pauline Kael and her opinion of Hal Prince's direction of the ALNM film, "this was directed as if the director had never SEEN a film." NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, here was more ready to love this film for EXACTLY what it was than me, but not even I could bring myself to find anything to compliment (besides "CI" and Kidman's "Unusual Way", both of which were nearly destroyed by editing). Check the back-threads for tons of proof of this. It's not a good film, that is not an opinion but a fact. I'm glad you find a lot to like in it though! I, too, love my share of bad movies (from SHOCK TREATMENT to VALLEY OF THE DOLLS to HOSTEL II), but this isn't one of them!

P

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