Diversity of Producers
Diversity of Producers
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#1Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/25/18 at 11:37pm
Author mentions that there are only 2 lead African American producers on Bway. Are there any lead Latinx producers? Not sure if Estefans count.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marchershberg/2018/09/25/broadway-steps-up-diversity-push/#2c034be01f7e
#2Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/25/18 at 11:51pm
Producers really are a sidebar to the question of behind the scenes diversity because lead producers are not hired or recruited; they self-select.
Now we can suggest that more could be done to interest minorities in investing in theatre, or for that matter going to the theatre. But I don't see how this relates to the question of hiring more minorities; it confounds the subject.
(And I have no clue what St. Martin is talking about re dying at desks or working into the 80s. Seems pretty clueless as a comment.)
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#3Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 1:08am
I totally understand her comments about producers not retiring the same way as the averages.
SomethingPeculiar
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/15/14
#4Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 1:19am
HogansHero said: "Producers really are a sidebar to the question of behind the scenes diversity because lead producers are not hired or recruited; they self-select. Now we can suggest that more could be done to interest minorities in investing in theatre, or for that matter going to the theatre. But I don't see how this relates to the question of hiring more minorities; it confounds the subject.
I think it's extremely related. With more diverse producers and leaders, we'll have more diverse work, and it increases the likelihood of diverse talent being hired (from the office staff to the directors). Getting qualified people interested in producing is tough, like you say, because it requires so much $$$ and relationships. Hiring and promoting diverse talent today will help our industry a generation from now, but it doesn't really help the senior-leadership problem in the short-term.
And the theatre owners –– the people who "greenlight" the work –– being primarily white and male contributes to a lack of diverse work onstage (though it's slowly getting better). Which is a good segue...
"(And I have no clue what St. Martin is talking about re dying at desks or working into the 80s. Seems pretty clueless as a comment.)"
Look at the Shubert Org: Jacobs and Schoenfeld died in office at 80 and 84; when Smith and Wankel assumed their current jobs 10 years ago, they were 77 and 62. (And according to the NYT, the board that promoted them was "six men who range in age from 65 to 94.) At Jujamcyn, VP Paul Libin just retired at 87 but still runs Circle in the Square.
And the four Broadway non-profits have white leaders in their 60s/70s who have been there for years: Lynne Meadow & Barry Grove (40+ years at MTC), Carol Rothman (40 years at 2nd Stage), Todd Haimes (35 years at Roundabout), and Andre Bishop (26 years at LCT). And Bernie Gersten was 90 when he retired from LCT a few years ago.
With new shows always around the corner, I would think that helps keep theatre people from growing tired of long-term gigs. It's great that these institutions have had stability and a lot of success (& some non-successes), but it's interesting that the leadership has stuck around for such a long time.
#5Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 11:02am
That's all well and good but it does not focus on my point, which is that producers are not selected. There is no zero sum game with producers: if you show up with a great project (or even a not so great one as we have repeatedly seen) that's ready to roll, you become a Broadway producer. It doesn't mean squat that there are other older producers who have not died yet. Your point about theatre owners would have some validity if you could identify a single producer of color who did not get a theatre because of minority status. (And please don't use the expression green light. First, that's for movies, and secondly, it does not make sense in this context anyway.) Your point about the non-profits is a good one, but that's a quite different issue, and not limited to Broadway.
What's obscured by the focus on producers is the real issue, which is the limited presence of minorities working on shows, i.e., working for producers. That's what Boyd was talking about.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#6Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 12:53pm
HogansHero said: "That's all well and good but it does not focus on my point, which is that producers are not selected. There is no zero sum game with producers: if you show up with a great project (or even a not so great one as we have repeatedly seen) that's ready to roll, you become a Broadway producer. It doesn't mean squat that there are other older producers who have not died yet. Your point about theatre owners would have some validity if you could identify a single producer of color who did not get a theatre because of minority status. (And please don't use the expression green light. First, that's for movies, and secondly, it does not make sense in this context anyway.) Your point about the non-profits is a good one, but that's a quite different issue, and not limited to Broadway.
What's obscured by the focus on producers is the real issue, which is the limited presence of minorities working on shows, i.e., working for producers. That's what Boyd was talking about."
I'm not an expert here, and you probably know much more than me, but isn't the traditional path for producers to be company or general managers first? They sort of work their way up, unless they're like the Kagans and come from another industry with money and connections. So, if minorities are getting gigs as company or general managers, then it is more unlikely that they'll be lead producers in the future. But, you're general point is true. They self-select. That said, though, what's the diversity like production offices? Does Rudin have AfricanAmerican, Latinx, & Asian etc. in his staff? No clue.
Also, SomethingPeculiar, really fascinating stuff about how long people stay in office. Thanks for sharing!!!
#7Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 2:00pm
zainmax said: "I'm not an expert here, and you probably know much more than me, but isn't the traditional path for producers to be company or general managers first? They sort of work their way up, unless they're like the Kagans and come from another industry with money and connections. So, if minorities are getting gigs as company or general managers, then it is more unlikely that they'll be lead producers in the future. But, you're general point is true. They self-select. That said, though, what's the diversity like production offices? Does Rudin have AfricanAmerican, Latinx, & Asian etc. in his staff? No clue."
That is certainly one prominent path, but there are a number of others. I'd say another big one is being an investor and deciding to become a producer. If Robert Johnson and his wife (at one time the richest black business people, maybe still) wanted to become a producer, they could, just like the Kagans did. If Jay-Z wanted to be a producer, he could... (you get the idea) You are right that the GM and producer offices are short on minorities, but again my point was not to the contrary but simply that focusing on who is a producer and how (undiverse) their ranks are, is misplaced. Not to be crude, but when we talk about diversity, what we are saying is that white folks need to hire minorities. If everything in America were color blind, we would not need to talk about diversity. If...
SomethingPeculiar
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/15/14
#8Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 3:00pm
"Not to be crude, but when we talk about diversity, what we are saying is that white folks need to hire minorities."
Crude as it sounds, yes, that's the starting place. Increasing the number of diverse company managers/associate GMs/agency staff/etc. (and promoting them!!) won't fix the short-term problem, but it will absolutely help in the long-term. It takes time for people to grow into senior positions (case in point: Shubert Org), so they've got to start somewhere.
Everyone is going to have blindspots based on their gender, race, religion and age, and those can affect tastes and hiring practices. But when the decision-makers are predominantly white men, those blindspots become much bigger.
This is starting to get off-topic, but I'm curious about the Tonys, too. I don't know anything about their racial breakdown, but a few years ago, the voters were 63% male...to contrast it with the audiences, which was 66% female and 77% white.
This is all a challenging, worthwhile conversation to have, and I think it's something that too often gets ignored.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#9Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 3:29pm
Interesting! But, I do think that increasing the diversity in CM, AGM, and agency staff will actually help fix the short-term problem, as well. The very top might take decades to change up, for the reasons that you mentioned.
Regarding the TONY's, I'm not sure if that difference is significant or whatever, but I wonder if it does change producing decisions. Are we shooting to sell out audiences, or win Tony Awards? Obviously, both are wanted, and I doubt that producers actually do their research and analysis in this stuff, but still very neat.
Curious if the Bway League also takes into account gender diversity.
Also, re. Hogan, Johnson and Jay-Z could be lead producers, but they won't really get how the business works. Bway is very unique legally & financially.
JSquared2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/23/17
#10Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 3:39pm
zainmax said: "Interesting! But,I do think that increasing the diversity in CM, AGM, and agency staff will actually help fix the short-term problem, as well. The very top might take decades to change up, for the reasons that you mentioned.
Regarding the TONY's, I'm not sure if that difference is significant or whatever, but I wonder if it does change producing decisions. Are we shooting to sell out audiences, or win Tony Awards? Obviously, both are wanted, and I doubt that producers actually do their research and analysis in this stuff, but still very neat.
Curious if the Bway League also takes into account gender diversity.
Also, re. Hogan, Johnson and Jay-Z could be lead producers, but they won't really get how the business works. Bway is very unique legally & financially.
Jay-Z (along with Will and Jada Pinkett Smith) were listed in first position as the lead producers above the title on FELA! Alicia Keys was a lead producer on STICK FLY. Oprah was a lead producer on COLOR PURPLE. Whoopi Goldberg was a lead producer on THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE and SISTER ACT. I'm not saying all these folks were at the ad meetings, etc --- but all of them were entitled to have a seat at the table if they wished. Also, around 95% of the so-called "producers" on Broadway don't really "get" how the business works (see Davenport, Ken).
vampire musical
Stand-by Joined: 6/25/14
#11Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 3:55pm
Adding to the above comment by JSquared2.
Kerry Washington's company Simpson Street is co-lead producing AMERICAN SON and has courted Jada, Shonda Rhimes, and Gabrielle Union-Wade to co-produce the play. All black females.
Promoting CMs and GMs of color is important, yes. But very few lead producers started out in these positions. Most lead producers are people of extreme means (Daryl Roth, Stacey Mindich, Roy Furman, the Kagans, etc), had other successes running theatrical companies they owned not just worked at (Kevin McCollum, Jeffrey Seller, Jeffrey Richards, David Stone), or came from high ranks of other entertainment sectors (Scott Rudin). The only person who immediately comes to mind who started out working as a company manager is... Ken Davenport.
If the Broadway League and industry as a whole wants to improve diversity of producers then there should be active measures to attract POC who are people of extreme means (which I'd say Jada, Shonda, and Gabrielle are), experienced theater executives/business owners, and high-level entertainment executives.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#12Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 5:21pm
You made a great and valid point. But, regarding all of those celebrities as producers, I think that they're only lead producers for publicity purposes. When I mean lead producers, I mean people like Rudin, Seller, & Mindich who will option and develop a work. Whoopi, Dwayne Wade, and Shonda Rhimes just seem to hop on for the Broadway ride.
#13Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 7:07pm
Although I think the mentioned people have the capacity to "get" the business of Broadway, you don't have to know the ins and outs. You just have to be smart enough to associate yourself with people who do. That's what GMs are for, and lawyers, etc. Jeff Bezos has no idea how to pack a shipment so it doesn't break, or how to keep vegetables from rotting on shelves. The dummies are the ones who try to wing it.
As I said before, there is no one anointed path to producing, and diversity among producers is a deep order. There is a lot of ground work, only one element of which is diversity at the lower levels.
One more passing comment. Vampire mentioned Rudin as a person from another sector. Actually, he has a very strong provenance. Long before he became a mogul, he was slaving away in Kermit Bloomgarden's office.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#14Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/26/18 at 7:37pm
You're right about that. But, I don't think that they have the sort of initiative to do that kind of stuff on their own. They're not really in the business of Bway.
Also, if you watched Bezos talk with Rubenstein in Washington a couple of weeks ago, then you'd learn that Bezos actually did pack shipments when Amazon was a new company.
#16Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/27/18 at 2:05am
@JSquared2 I can't imagine any of those celebrities were lead producers, meaning a managing member of the LLC. Usually they are co-producers.
#17Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/27/18 at 9:58am
itsjustmejonhotmailcom said: "@JSquared2 I can't imagine any of those celebrities were lead producers, meaning a managing member of the LLC. Usually they are co-producers."
I think the people mentioned can't be lumped together. Some of them are in fact very active entertainment business people so there is no reason to think they could not be the managing member. Managing members can (and relatively frequently do) engage others (GM, Exec Producer, etc.) to perform tasks associated with being the lead producer. In some of these cases, it is entirely reasonable to think that the person initiated the production, which is something we commonly associate with the lead. One other major function of a managing member is that they get to decide on and/or approve expenditures, hirings, and when to close. These are things I can easily imagine Oprah doing, as an example. Finally, to stay on track, these are people who would likely bring both a minority sensibility and diversity of people into the fold as staff.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#18Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/27/18 at 11:20am
You're probably right. Do you know any specific examples of celebrities making big decisions on Bway?
troynow
Leading Actor Joined: 5/2/13
#19Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/27/18 at 1:23pm
So...
Part of the challenge witn this article is that you have a producer whonconsirantly finds ways to seperare himself from the other producers of color in NYC.
Yes Stephen Byrd has been a lead... twice... and now a co-producer.
Howeber there are other producers working away in NYC doing great things... including:
Randy Davis
Rashad Chambers
Jovan Hannah
Ron Simmons
Brian Moreland
Irene Gandy
Alia Jones-Harvey.
Willette Klausner
Many other folks.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#20Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/27/18 at 2:31pm
Isn't Alia Jones-Harvey partners with Byrd? Also, didn't realize Gandy was a producer!
#21Diversity of Producers
Posted: 9/27/18 at 4:32pm
zainmax said: "You're probably right. Do you know any specific examples of celebrities making big decisions on Bway?"
I am not sure I understand the significance of celebrities (although I suspect Oprah probably qualifies here). The question, I thought, was about titular lead producers who did not know enough on their own about the nuts and bolts (and who I said would therefore rely on others to fill in the gaps). There are lots of those.
Am I missing something?
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