Does Avenue Q owe Urinetown for The Tony for Best Musical?

[BillyLawlor]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 9:21pm

In an interview with Hunter Foster, and Jennifer Laura Thompson, they both said that Avenue Q owes Urinetown for their best Musical Tony. I don't think that's necessarily true. What is everyone's opinion on the board?

[MyNameInLights]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 9:27pm

How is that possible?

[BroadwayDiva]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 9:28pm

I'm confused. Why would AQ owe Urinetown, which was 3 years before?? I mean, I think Urinetown should have won over TMM, but Avenue Q doesn't owe them anything!!

That is SO weird! The 2 shows have nothing to do with each other!

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 9:28pm

well, they would say that wouldn't they
Urinetown's success might have allowed Q the chance to transfer from off-Broadway to Broadway, but as for the Tony, although many people have said that Q vs. WCKD was retribution for U-town vs.Millie, I really don't think that was a major factor.

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 9:30pm

I can see that in a way. Avenue Q was the triumph of the ironic musical over the traditional blockbuster. But of course thats not to say that Ave Q should hand over the tony by any means. But Urinetown did help lay the path for the Avenue Q win. BTW, where is this interview?

[bythesword84]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 9:31pm

While I don't think I would say Avenue Q "owes" Urinetown, I would say that they should acknowledge the show. Urinetown really was a big success and it did open the doors for other small shows, whether that was its intention or not. I think that it is generally seen and known that Urinetown was robbed of the 2002 Tony for Best Musical and that people may have had that in their heads, the unfairness that the bigger show always wins even when it is so obviously not the better show.

Now, to be fair, I do think that Wicked/Avenue Q was a MUCH closer race in terms of which show was the best, while I felt Urinetown danced all over Millie's face. I do think Urinetown certainly did expose a theatrical inequity and serious issue when it won the three big prizes and then lost Best Musical to Millie. Do I think that's the only reason Q has been successful? Of course not. I think Q should have won on it's own merit. But, I would be lying if I said I didn't think Urinetown was still in people's heads. I mean, look at this year's Tony Awards. They had Little Sally and Officer Lockstock come out and give the rules to the audience for accepting awards. Urinetown may have closed but the imprint it left will not be going away. I absolutely think it opened the door for shows like Q.

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 10:06pm

"I do think that Wicked/Avenue Q was a MUCH closer race in terms of which show was the best..."

I actually thought that Wicked had it in the bag: it was the most talked about show at the time and received the most nominations. I was disappointed that Ave Q won, but congratulations to them on a job well done!

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 10:11pm

And hopefully Caroline will be the one remembered as being robbed last year.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 10:17pm

I actually thought that Wicked had it in the bag: it was the most talked about show at the time and received the most nominations. I was disappointed that Ave Q won, but congratulations to them on a job well done!

So did I, but don't forget that this "most talked about show" wasn't always talked about in a positive light.

I don't think Wicked would have benefited much from winning, and neither would have Broadway, so I'm very happy that Avenue Q won. Maybe this means we'll have edgier, more "grassroots" musicals on Broadway.

To answer the original question, I don't think Avenue Q owes Urinetown a Tony; what a silly thought! Although Urinetown certainly opened doors for off-Broadway transfers like the one Avenue Q enjoyed, Avenue Q won on its own merits. It's a more palatable show, being warm and identifiable, which is why it would appeal more to Tony voters than the dark and cold (but hilarious!) Urinetown did two years back.

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 10:18pm

"I don't think Wicked would have benefited much from winning..."

It doesn't really need any benefits, after all, it is doing pretty well!

[dididda]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 10:33pm

my opinion:

what was expected to win: wicked
what did win: ave q
what should have won: caroline.

where does ave q owe urinetown? i dont get that at all.
the end

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 10:34pm

Dididda: Read above posts.

[dididda]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 10:40pm

i did read them, it just doenst make much sense to me.

Posted: 10/14/04 at 10:41pm

It's more of a nod, but it does give one pause...
Was Marisa Tomei really THAT good? People tend to vote their heart, and sometimes the heart is in the strangest places.

[bythesword84]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 11:08pm

I'm sorry but I fail to see how Caroline was robbed. It was hardly robbed. The show just wasn't that good. In all honesty, maybe if it came in a slow year but last year was a relatively big year for musicals. It isn't often to have two large (in success terms) shows in one year, and Caroline- as much as you people love it- really was not a success.

Everyone thought Wicked had it in the bag Millie, I was at the Tonys and even the Tony people thought Wicked had it. When they announced the winner as Avenue Q all the screens in Radio City said WICKED as the winner. Once someone realized that it was taken down but that was the immediate posting on the screens.

To compare Q and Urinetown makes a lot of sense. They're both little shows. They're both shows which are hardly what would be considered common themes, and they both have a unique style to them. They were both not thought to be a big deal before they moved to Broadway. Then they both not only moved, but became large successes because of their originality. Urinetown revolutionized the idea of little shows making it up throw the ranks to ultimate success, then Avenue Q was able to do the same thing. Holding the two up as comparisons is completely logical. No one is saying the shows in and of themselves are the same, but more that their situations were similar and it's true.

[Gypsy2]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 11:12pm

I think a show should win best musical because it IS the best musical. Win for itself, not for other shows. Other shows, win or lose, had their chance, and cannot be considered for the sucess of another show.

[Carl Magnum]

Posted: 10/14/04 at 11:25pm

Yes Ave. Q owes a debit of gratitude to Urinetown for their tony. The same would hold true if Ave. Q came first and got screwed by a big, flashy, cardboard cutout of a musical. Like Urinetown did.

[andyf]

Posted: 10/15/04 at 12:23am

Did everyone not like Millie or you just think that it shouldn't have won over Urinetown?

[bythesword84]

Posted: 10/15/04 at 12:35am

I didn't like Millie.

However, whether I liked Millie or I didn't like Millie, no one can deny that Urinetown was by far more unique, innovative, and new. Well, people can deny it all they want, but I won't ever agree with them. Millie was based on a movie and it did what it was supposed to do in that it followed the classic "girl comes to NY to make it big" theme. Urinetown was a completely new deal. It deserved it on that alone. Aside from the fact that it was just a superior show.

[Broadway Matt]

Posted: 10/15/04 at 1:27am

well it's a ridiculous statement just on the fact that the shows opened in different seasons. if we're gonna start debating intra-season award equality, there are huge chunks of years that could've just cancelled having the awards at all.

aside from all that, I can see how Millie was the winner, because it was at the very least well-done show in the traditional feel-good format. Urinetown is way more inventive and very arguably a better show but it's not for everyone, left many wondering what to make of it, and it did have a worthy opponent in Millie. Avenue Q's win was a wonderful thing, but reallt it just displayed that there IS sometimes justice in selection process. It won in a year when it should have been a shoo-in, or favored strongly. Everyone, including myself, expected Wicked to win, but that was from assuming that the voters would value hype over quality. Fortunately they proved us wrong.

MILLIE as Best Musical is believable and defensible, WICKED as Best Musical would have been an embarrassing black eye to musical theatre, a genre that doesn't need to to be taken even less seriously than it is.

[Jon]

Posted: 10/15/04 at 9:58am

Regarding Marisa Tomei:

Hollywood loves to give SUPPORTING Oscars to wacky comedy performances - look at Mira Sorvino in Mighty Aphrodite, Dianne Weist in Bullets Over Broadway and Whoopi Golsbert in Ghost. But they almost never give a leading Osciar for a comedy - In the past 30 years, only Diane Keaton (Annie Hall) and Helen Hunt (As Good As It Gets) have won.

Posted: 10/15/04 at 12:58pm

The Tomei reference: There were 4 exceptional British Women up for Supporting, and some thought it was "Let's give it to the lone American"

[sabrelady]

Posted: 10/15/04 at 4:58pm

I kinda agree that w out Urinetown I don't think this show woulda/coulda got the attention "Q" did end up getting. I remember very well Hal Prince exhorting to " not sell the audience short" to give them original, provoking work & they would come. The votes were already counted so it was too late for Urinetown but did it(his speech) influence the voters? I kinda think so & "Q" drew the benefit. (Not that I agree that they deserved it but that's another can o worms!) Updated On: 10/15/04 at 04:58 PM

[mint0621]

Posted: 10/15/04 at 9:08pm

am i totally out of it? is urinetown even playing on broadway or anywhere in ny? I would love to see it...

[bythesword84]

Posted: 10/16/04 at 12:55am

Urinetown closed in January of this year.