Drowsy in London- Page 2

[Marcus2]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 7:04am

I think West End audiences are a tad more critial and I agree! We also aren't so loud about things we don't like. I sometimes think there are people (including in england) that just shout and cheer to be the loudest.

Broadway shows do do well here and with things like Wicked, it isn't sold out every night but its alot bigger than the Gersh (something like 1900 to the Apollo's 2330) so its probably selling out the gersh every day.

The two cultures are quite alike, hence why American tv shows etc so amazingly well in British culture, we're almost one country!

British people can love something to bits without making every person in the theatre know it.

I do believe though on broadway there are alot more experiemental musicals than in the West End and I love that, West end seems to be full of tried and tested American imports but there was once a time when it was the other way round (cats, Phantom, Les Mis etc). Broadway shows are also alot more fun and light hearted and I think sometimes british audiences want to go to theatre that makes them think, but this again is changing as more young people (like myself) get into newer musicals and get rid of this whole musicals are for old posh people!

Just don't judge a book by its cover hee hee, or reputation. British audiences aren't that stuffy at all, we're just proud of our theatre history!

[mallardo]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 10:22am

As an American living part-time in London it seems to me that West End audiences are a tad on the conservative side. The musicals that do well are either safe revivals of revered oldies - Sound of Music, Guys and Dolls, etc. - or original shows deriving from movies or some other medium that have pre-sold recognition - Spamalot, Wicked (Wizard of Oz), Mary Poppins, Billy Elliot, etc.

Drowsy is an original creation and that's a problem - as it was, initially, on Broadway - because no one knows it. Word of mouth spread quickly in New York and the Tonies helped but that won't be the case in the West End so the long term prognosis is spotty. It has to be sold on Elaine Paige's name - note that all of the reviewers felt they had to single her out - yet she is not playing the leading character in the show! That's a problem too.

Likewise, I think a brilliant (to me) original piece like Grey Gardens will have a tough time in London despite Christine Ebersol's Tony, for more or less the same reasons. Ditto Spring Awakening, if and when.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 11:19am

ONE THING BRITS ARENT IS CONSERVATIVE

I think the UK is the most open minded ,liberal place in the world when it comes to Culture and theatre

[bwaygal1]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 11:46am

I adore GG to the heavens and was screaming when MLW and Christine won last night, but I honestly think it will have major problems in London. It is a purely American story (Hominy Grits will probably not resonate with them the way it does here.) It doesn't help that despite Christine Ebersole's wins, no one there knows who she is.
I of course want to see it succeed but truly have my doubts, especially as I lived there and went to the theater quite frequently.

[Mark_E]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 11:56am

"It doesn't help that despite Christine Ebersole's wins, no one there knows who she is. "

I guess that it would be a similar situation as Idina opening Wicked in London. Only theatre fans would know who she is and average theatre goers would most likely not.

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 11:58am

No songanddance, I didn't mean that Benny Hill was even acknowledged these days, maybe in re-runs. I said "past". It was just an example of what the Brits will go for in desperation to see anything that doesn't look like British Cuisine. Though fish and chips, if it isn't too greasy is fine with me, with lots of vinegar, thank you.


As for Brits and Americans being the same? Well, again refer to Queen reference. If anyone gets too excited in the wrong crowd, your Parents will smack you for it. Granted, here we see kids running in the aisle, so what can I say? Are you Being Served? I've seen some new Brit imports, like 28 weeks and days. Danny the Dog, stuff like that. There really is a cultural difference. I remember though too, To Sir with Love, as well as all of those footage of Beatles and Rolling Stone wackos. Enough references?

I can also give you plenty of bad American References as well. Though most you would hope are well meaning if not all well mannered. We did give you the Jerry Springer Show and yes, there are Americans who act like that still, we are hardly the icon of civilization here in many parts of the Country.

It's not that it isn't there, just not so much in the Theatre. My point was I believe many went to see something like "Fanny" but got something totally unexpected instead. That can shake you up, if you haven't enjoyed American or Canadian humor. Remember, though this does have an injection of American heavy handedness, it is still though, basically a Canadian Script.

So, of course I don't believe Brits don't have a sense of humor, just many who reviewed it, forgot to leave the Queen protocol at home.

I don't think too many believe Drowsy is over the top, monumental, like Fame or Rent or Phantom, we see it for what it is, something new and fun to watch in a Theatre near you. It has some catchy songs and was well presented. The monkey segment? Well, that is pretty much a Canadian import gimmick but you appreciate it for what it is, an example of, some filler to make sure you don't take anything way too seriously. I have seen that a lot in Canadian Shows.

Yet, overall, there is a difference in culture. Mostly because in America, we have more of a mix of cultures, take the good with the bad, while you Brits, have other influences, you tend to hold onto slavishly at times, certain cultural norms that we have since brushed aside. Partly because we aren't Brits, we aren't Krauts, Africana's nor Frenchie's we are the sum of them all mixed up together more so than many of you are culturally.I'm not ignoring that your Country is overall made up of a variety of influences, they just hold onto culture tightly.

Our Television isn't really that great anymore, I feel it just does well in England, Internationally because like most of us who don't live in or near New York, we are bored, will watch almost anything. We have more money than God to waste in Production too. That is the only reason I can explain about our Television. Maybe one out of a hundred is any good. We watch your shows too, out of pure indolence or total lack of purpose sometimes.

Drowsy though doesn't get people out of control, what it does is remind many about those great Broadway shows of the Past that many of us have only seen on Television. Then makes fun of it all. Some, might not like that aspect of it, which I can understand but just try to remember some of the stuff writers come up with or are forced to include because some Director or Producer thought it was funny. It really appeals to young and old alike. It has great costumes, good choreography and maintains that almost stupidity you would think reigns well for the Brits. Like in "Little Briton", (is that the title? I only hear excerpt of it) It sounds funny at times, like "V" can even be at times.

Like I mentioned before, it has to find it's Audience out there and hopefully, word of mouth will get to the younger folks who will enjoy it the most. I hope it merits a good enough run so that happens before it has to leave Town or so many will be missing a good show.

I don't agree that shows from Broadway shouldn't go to England, it just isn't going to get the reception we have due to the difference in Culture. Just the fact that some shows that are smashing in America aren't so monumental in England, proves the point. Producers though may need to take a shows temperature first maybe before spending so much money up front, if they end up losing it in England, that isn't a good thing.

With Drowsy though too, Bob Martin is from England, so it is sort of a whim of his to put on his show there. If it doesn't fly well, it is Canadian humor, not American that they didn't get. Which to me, can sometimes be more revealing than even many American Production get overall. Their censors are a lot less shyer than ours are. Their ties though, are even closer than ours are to British Culture because of their roots, while our Country pushed a lot of those protocols aside much sooner than the Canadians did. Some for the good, some for the bad but I much prefer the Canadian Govt. over our own, for the most part, right now.

So, I am not meaning to bash the Brits, we like your accents, when we can figure out what some of you are saying. There is however a difference because of History and Culture, that is all.

Congrats too, to Bob and Janet on word of their expected Baby! That was great news too!

[Eastwickian]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 12:20pm

"ONE THING BRITS ARENT IS CONSERVATIVE

I think the UK is the most open minded ,liberal place in the world when it comes to Culture and theatre"

I'd like to agree, but you try getting the great British public to see an original musical that isn't a revival, based on a film, or a 'hit' Broadway transfer (though it hasn't helped that the vast majority of 'British' shows recently have been dire).

I too worry about the reception of Grey Gardens in the commercial sector - I don't really think that people over here want or expect an 'intelligent' musical. That's what we have plays for. Musicals should be large-scale extravaganzas, rather than small and thoughful. Even the stellar 'Sunday in the Park' couldn't manage more than a (respectable) 6 month run.

I don't really understand why Tkt2Ride keeps mentioning the Queen though. Maybe if we all dumped our Earl Grey in the river and declared a republic, Drowsy would get a better reception...

[bwaygal1]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 12:26pm

With Idina-look at Wicked. Two British gentlemen told me it's not doing well. Apparently her getting the ball rolling didn't do much for it, either. Idina didn't even get an Olivier nod, either.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 12:28pm

Eastwickan i love you i do

But look back at the shows what have been huge in the UK and you will see many that aren't Imports based on a film etc.

Also , the UK is made up of many many cultures , that's why the UK is one of the most diverse counties around(how many times have you visited here lol)

The queen references are kinda puzzling me to lol

I lived in the states for a few years and just didn't see that much difference , guess it was just me.

oh and the jerry reference , we have people like that here to.. they are called scallys (watch the jeremy kyle show lol)

[Eastwickian]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 12:46pm

Luv u 2

BUT

I can't think of a sucessful original British musical from the past five years. Part of the problem is that the new shows are, by and large, terrible (Murderous Instincts, Beautiful & Damned, Behind the Iron Mask, Daddy Cool etc) and part is that audiences and investors seem nervous of new shows, preferring to trot out Fame, Footloose, Grease and Dirty Dancing. And where are our Adam Guettels, Jason Robert Browns, Michael John LaChiusas? Lloyd Webber is flying an increasingly tattered flag for the UK, with Stiles and Drewe not yet living up to the promising 'Just So' and 'Honk!'

And we are a diverse nation - but though that's often reflected in plays and television, it's rarely on a musical stage. 'The Big Life' lasted no time at all and 'Bombay Dreams' was a hit with no follow-up.

And reason that Idina didn't get an Olivier nod is because there were so many other people better than her that year. End of story.

Updated On: 6/12/07 at 12:46 PM

[bwaygal1]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 12:52pm

East-I know that there were other people.
Also-though-one has to consider shouldering the cost of the transfer. It's terribly expensive and the show will do really well here for the next few weeks. Then, I imagine, after all the post-Tony theater folks have seen it, it will die down again to the lackluster box office it had before. (in the month prior to the Tonys, attendance peaked at 71%) A show like that won't fare well in London, where people have a limited frame of reference for the story and where the theaters are much larger.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 12:59pm

Eastwickan -are you trying to say that Daddy Cool was a bad show lol

I admit the UK is on a bit of a creative slump of late when it comes to musicals but in reality the US whilst opening more new shows aint doing that much better(yes they have had Grey Gardens whats a fantastic new show).Spring has got a lot of Attention for reasons that escape me(average at best) and Drowsy whilst fun wasnt really anything new.

Broadway does the same as us , we put out Fame, Footloose, dirty dancing etc and they put out Wedding Singer, High Fidelity, Legally Blonde(which i love),Xanadu(eek)

I do think that broadway is creating more stuff but not necessarily great stuff.

[Marcus2]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 1:06pm

Wicked is doing well over here, maybe we don't have every girl and her dog painting themselves green but its still doing well!

I'm a little bit offended at people talking about us holding onto our culture almost like we're stuck in the past! We are proud of our huge history but not so proud we like to be like victorians. Seriously about the Queen, most people in england couldn't give a flying toss about her or what she does!

England is one of the most diverse countries in the world and the English tolerate alot, we're also probably less patriotic than Americans (how I feel anyway) but I really don't think our cultures are too different.

Also little bit annoyed at someone making it sound like the only thing they like about the English is our accent?! What?!

I do think though that the West End is mightily different to Broadway and the way its respected etc, Shows aren't so publisised in England as they are in America and award shows like the Tony's has no england comparative (Oliver awards are awful and need to be scrapped in my opinion).

Just becuase England folks don't go wild for their favourite show and enjoy it in a more reserved mannor does not mean they aren't enjoying it. I just think that west end shows aren't publisised enough, so many people think musicals are old, but then they see things like Avenue Q and are amazed at how funny and great a musical can be!

There was once a time when many west end imports where Broadway and now (and for a little while) thats changed and Broadway is coming to West end, just alot at once. Things like Wicked come in a hard season with lots of other shows, spoiling us for choice. But the good shows will proveil and more tv publicity should be done to show how great new musicals are!

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 1:09pm

marcus2 i love you and what to have your children lol

BUT THAT BEEN SAID

Wicked isnt doing very well here, so much so Live Nation are already talking touring the show next year and closing the London production

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 1:43pm

Sorry bout that but to many of us, "Queen" has become a word that represents the protocol, like "stiff upper lip". Same goes for the F-word, a word with many meanings. As opposed to the radical French. "I am not amused!" comes up a lot I'm afraid to say. Coming from a Country with "King George" here, I am hardly waving a banner of greatness in your face, in style or taste. Just measuring the cost vs venue, audience factor into all of this.

Sorry though, you lost some merits with the whole Iraq fiasco that is going to cost you even more than us, since your borders are a lot closer than ours. At least your style of Govt. or maybe just it's officials, have more backbone than ours does these days. Not sure which? This has moved Canada up quite a few notches ahead in my Political handbook. Though most know Harper isn't a gift, if it wasn't for their style of Govt. stuffing a sock in his mouth, Canada too would be bogged down like the rest of us are in War.

You mentioned the censors, so that alone is much different than jolly old England. Universal Healthcare? No, I haven't been there but had friends from there and listen to Progressive Radio, so they call in quite a bit. My example stems largely from the difference in ticket sales and our taste for something new.

Another thing about America is well, our population. We are a very big Country with a lot of space and some really great food. For some reason, everyone wants to come here. Broadway does offer so much and with such convenience, it is understandable why so many feel it is worth the trip. Especially since now, you can walk the streets at night in relative safety. It is all right there in one place, so except for the price of a Hotel, usually everyone can find something they like there. That probably boost sales some too, since those who enjoy Theatre have so much temptation all conveniently in the same location.

Ha ha, you can keep your Earl Gray, as long as I get to keep my Constant Comment, it's all fine with me! Same goes for your Queens! Our Queens are better! Just more rich celebrities to me. So glad you at least have them finally paying taxes. Yet how difficult is it for a Minority to rise up from the sewers in England? Better than before but still easier here, if you have the guts.

You want "King George"? We can throw in Little Colin Powell the FCC wiz, (keep forgetting his name, on purpose too), for free!

[Marcus2]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 1:50pm

Yeah to be perfectly honest I don't really know about the state of wicked, just I went two wednesdays ago, to the matinee and it was packed, maybe its just dealing with a slump, but as said I have no clue! I think it needs more exposure.

Tkt2ride I'm very confused as to what your talking about?! Something to do with the queen, and other stuff that I don't understand.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 2:58pm

WTF

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 4:14pm

Sorry Marcus, I guess it is just our Cultural differences. I went all cultural, political on you.

Since Drowsy was changed and though it did fairly well in Canada, it did much better here in America. Mostly based on the improvement of it's production values, meaning, money. It's a spoof of Musicals, which makes it funny. The critics who missed that part were doing the public a disservice. Yet it has suffered some too, it sounds like because of poor publicity.

Now Drowsy comes from a writer who was originally English, obviously the Canadian influence rubbed off on him more and a Homecoming of sorts isn't going to really happen overall in England. It might do better in France! I am still happy that Bob Martin was able to play "The Man in Chair" for England, even if they were unable to see how truly comical the whole show is. He is coming back to Canada, then to America, where we love him dearly so, perhaps that is better for us all? Just because some English don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't good.

I say, see it while you can. Yet, if things don't change, you may see less and less Broadway shows make it over the pond, so to speak. Maybe, just as well? This is really funny and it may be awhile before something this funny comes along from Broadway or anywhere else. Seeing something from Canada is probably even rarer still.

[mallardo]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 5:09pm

Songanddanceman2, I never said Brits are conservative - nor would I ever say it, I agree with you. I said West End audiences are conservative - quite a different thing. A quick look at what's on right now in the "commercial" houses - excluding the subsidized National Theatre and "off-Broadway" houses like the Donmar, Almeida, Chocolate Factory and Royal Court - and it's a pretty safe and yes, "conservative" lineup. Broadway is not so different to be sure but there does seem to be room right now for new and challenging musicals like Spring Awakening and I don't see those sorts of risks being taken in the West End.

The Chocolate Factory will be producing a new David Shire/Richard Maltby musical, the title of which escapes me, in the fall. It will be interesting to see if this meets with enough success to transfer to the West End as Little Shop and Sunday in the Park did. That might be a good test.

[Weez]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 5:11pm

Is it 'Take Flight' you're referring to? It's more an end of summer thing. :3

[mallardo]

Posted: 6/11/07 at 5:19pm

Yes, that's it, Weez. Thank you.