Ethical Dilemma Regarding MTI- Page 4

[lite2shine]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 2:29pm

>In corporate America, if you have a problem with a co-worker, you are told to take it HR and let them handle it.

Hmm, usually you need to go through the chain of command: first go to your immediate supervisor, who is responsible for handling his/her subordinance. The supervisor should contact HR.

But in this case, it's not a corporate America so I'd suggest you to go to the license agency directly. Like other said, as long as the school can work out the payment (and they may have to pay for the past productions too), they won't have to close the show but the key is the earlier the better.

[Anastasia_Beaverhausen]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 2:34pm

Report them. I've done it several times. I have a friend that works at MTI and he pulls the plug!! :)

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 3:55pm

Here's what I would do.
1. Talk to the teacher. Tell her you respect her, but wonder if she is really doing the right thing. At least you would understand where she is coming from.
2. If you don't get a satisfactory answer go to the principal. Tell s/he of the conversation you had, what you know, etc. Be prepared to do some research and give them the information from the MTI website about how to obtain rights to perform a show.
3. If the principal refuses to do anything, then go to MTI.
Of course, if you really don't want your name involved, then just go to MTI directly and let them call the teacher and the school. More often than not, they'll first try to make a deal. If the teacher/school refuses, then they'll send a cease and desist order. But you have to do the right thing and live with your decision. Whatever you decide you have to be able to sleep at night.

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 4:26pm

"I work in corporate America and it incenses me when I constantly see people going over there colleagues heads to address an issue rather than going straight to the source to work something out, which more often than not gets worked out and keeps the ensuing drama at a minimum. But hey, this is a board about drama, so by all means jump right to opening a can of worms that might have been avoided by a simple preliminary conversation."

The problem with talking to the teacher first is that it will create more tension in the relationship between the student and the teacher. It's better that it be reported anonymously to MTI.

Another thing, can the teacher be penalized for the productions he or she has put on in the past?


EDIT: And there is no need to get the principal involved in this until it has been first reported to MTI.

Updated On: 10/19/06 at 04:26 PM

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 6:28pm

"And there is no need to get the principal involved in this until it has been first reported to MTI."

That's crazy! If I was a principal at a school, I would want to know what is happening on my campus before outsiders did. I would not want to be receiving a letter or phone call from MTI saying that a teacher was performing an illegal production, and this was the first I had heard of it. That is definitely unethical.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 6:31pm

MTI will probably first contact the principle of the school, not the teacher.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 6:42pm

That's crazy! If I was a principal at a school, I would want to know what is happening on my campus before outsiders did. I would not want to be receiving a letter or phone call from MTI saying that a teacher was performing an illegal production, and this was the first I had heard of it. That is definitely unethical.

Sorry, but that argument is laughable. This principal never once looked into or questioned what the teacher was doing. You can claim they "didn't know better" but a person in a place of authority like that SHOULD know better. They're the ones providing the funding for these programs, so they're just as much at fault as the teacher. It WAS happening on their campus. And to claim that not telling the principal (whose willfull ignorance has allowed this illegal activity to go on for years) is unethical? Please.

[morosco]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 6:57pm

[soapbox]his teacher is stealing...plain and simple. There should be no debate about it. And the original poster says it's not the first time the teacher has done this. I see no difference between stealing performance rights and shoplifting merchandise from a store. Surely the original poster would turn the teacher in if the teacher was shoplifting on a regular basis? I wouldn't care if I was found out for turning the teacher in because this teacher, who steals, is not the type person I would consider a friend.[/soapbox]

[fiyero8132]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 7:00pm

I think you will all be pleased to know that the crime has been reported to MTI. Feeling proud for doing the right thing, but also a little bit guilty. I made it clear to them that I hope they do not give the school any rash punishments. After all, the show is just in the works. It has not been mounted yet. Thanks for your support.

[morosco]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 7:05pm

We support you. You did the right thing. Applause!!

[Jon]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 7:06pm

I hope you will keep us updated.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 7:08pm

Good for you; you did the right thing! Now can you entertain us with what kind of changes she would make? I'm always horrified (yet amused) by some of the "improvements" directors make to musicals. I saw a production of OLIVER! once that added songs from LES MIZ and gave the chambermaid who normally sings one line of "Who Will Buy," "Wouldn't it be Loverly" from MY FAIR LADY instead.

[fiyero8132]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 7:38pm

That's hilarious! I have some great stories to tell about changes this director has made but for the privacy of the school and individuals involved I would rather not say anything. Thanks for respecting this.

[WhenURScrap]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 8:00pm

I was with a community theatre that did The Little Mermaid and Mary Poppins several years ago onstage ...

I wonder how ...

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 10:16pm

Tell us what happens between MTI and the school if you don't mind keeping us posted.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 10:24pm

You did the right thing - thank you and congratulations.

Fiyero will probably never hear from MTI again. When I reported it, I contacted that man I spoke to several months later. Aside from knowing that MTI's lawyers got involved, he had no idea what else happened, and he said he probably would never find out. Once it's out of his hands, it's really out of his hands.

Hopefully you'll be able to find out the dirt...but don't count on it.

[lite2shine]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 11:43pm

I didn't see it but once I heard an amatuer theatre company performed Into The Woods (without license of course) and they changed the script so that the Giant's wife didn't die...

[theaterdude87]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 11:47pm

i saw a high school do "Titanic," and we had heard through the grapevine they added in my heart will go on as a dance number...even though it is not MTI we had the company on standby and ready to call...the number had been pulled from the show. I think its apalling that a director would think they could do what they want. It is beyond redic and MTI has more than the right to close the show. Screw the cast in the situation...they will pout and blame MTI but its the director who should be blamed. He/ She was the one who screwed everyone over.

Updated On: 10/19/06 at 11:47 PM

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 11:50pm

In re: the orchestrations issue... MTI will now send you a perusal copy of a CD you can use in lieu of a real orchestra. One high school I work with has been using them for years now, and the director always requests a copy of the CD along with the script for shows he's considering. TW is coming into the pre-recorded music game a little late, but is making up for lost time quickly.

And just a side note: for all the moral outrage over someone stealing a composer's work or a playwright's work, forgive my cynicism as I look at the avatars sprinkled about this place: copyrighted show logos, copyrighted photographs, copyrighted poster imagery. Interesting how one form of theft is bad, while another is theoretically "good".

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 2:08am

You can use some of these pictures as user pictures if you get permission from the photographer.


And technically wouldn't using a logo from a certain show actually help in publicizing the show?

Updated On: 10/20/06 at 02:08 AM

[istoleatv]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 4:18am

What do you do if a children's theatre group is doing shows like Hairspray and Wicked? It's horrible! You can't actually call MTI, because they are not liscened shows yet. I work for a company that always gets the rights, but my roommate works for the place that is has been doing Wicked for 3 years now. It makes me so mad, but at the same time I want my roommate to have a job (he's a choreographer) so what to do!?! Plus the kids that I work with are always asking why they can't do Wicked or Hairspray. Any suggestions?

[BWIDB Charlie]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 5:09am

nobodyhome,

Just to clarify, I completely understand the concept of paying royalties both to the licensing agency, and (eventually) the artists. I Produce and Direct

My point was that this situation hurts everyone: The licensing agency receives no rental fees, the artists are not compensated for their work, the students are performing material without orchestra parts, the audience is not seeing a licensed production & all of the associated materials - on down the line. Clearly, it would be best for all parties to speak to MTI about this. I tend to think that students would rather do a full show than having only a piano (Yes, I'm aware some productions use only a piano in lieu of an orchesta. Humor me and assume that a school would probably use one.)

By the way, MTI *does* loan out P/C scores as perusal material. It's just not part of their standard perusal package. So, in theory, it would be possible to obtain this material in this manner.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 6:34am

>> And technically wouldn't using a logo from a certain show actually help in publicizing the show?

No. And that's no better a reason than "we dont want to hurt the kids so let the show go on!" messages in tihs thread. Theft is theft. If it's not yours to use legally, why would you even think about using it at all?

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 9:49am

"And that's no better a reason than "we dont want to hurt the kids so let the show go on! messages in this thread."

Not really, because using a show logo (an not obtaining a profit for it) benefits the good of the show while letting an illegal version of s show continue to run cheats thousands of dollars out of whoever owns the rights.

Example: WhenURScrap logo is of Burger King. Hey, free publicity for Burger King can = more business.

It's a different case if a photographer takes pictures at a certain event and specifically puts a copyright notice at the bottom of the page. Usually you can use the pictures if you obtain permission from the artist.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 10:09am

>> free publicity for Burger King can = more business.

I see. So stealing is okay if it promotes someone else's work, regardless of whether or not they *know* you've stolen their stuff "to promote their work"? I suppose this teacher could claim the same thing, that she's just encouraging people to support the theatre more often -- and, through trickle-down theory, actually be supporting Broadway by doing these illegal productions.

Sorry, that doesnt fly, neither legally nor ethically. Unless you have permission to use it, you're stealing it, whether it's the script and score to MUSIC MAN or the logo to AVENUE Q.