FOLLIES questions — Page 2

Not only that, but Sally's got a whole host of other problems. In the original script, she says at the end, "I should have died that first time. I should have been dead all these years," implying that she's not only tried to commit suicide, that she's tried it more than on occasion. My guess would be the first time was around the time that Ben married Phyllis. It's still hard to figure out exactly how the four of them parted ways, though, especially since Phyllis and Sally were so close.

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I just want to say thank you for this thread, it is so interesting.

Follies is one of the few shows that we have that you can pick apart, dissect, and discuss in this manner. It is thoroughly fascinating.

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Here's some interesting insight regarding Jonathan Tunick's orchestrations for "In Buddy's Eyes" from Craig Zadan's book Sondheim and Company:

"Jonathan is also very aware of subtext," Sondheim points out. "In FOLLIES there was a song called 'In Buddy's Eyes' which was Dorothy Collins's lie to the John McMartin character, in which she says that everything is just wonderful and she's having a terrific time at home, she's so happily married. Nothing in the lyric, not a word tells you that maybe it isn't true. Nothing in the music tells you, although there is something in the orchestration. The actress has to tell you, and if you had watched Dorothy Collins deliver that song with intense anger because she feels she has been had, because she had been jilted thirty years before, the whole song takes on a very peculiar quality. It isn't quite what it seems to be. Jonathan has orchestrated it so that every phrase in the song which refers to her husband is dry, all woodwinds. Whenever she refers to herself it's all strings again."

"At the climax of that song," Tunick says, "I added a very penetrating cold sound, which is a favorite of mine. It's a combination of trumpets and sometimes bells which give you that kind of icy buzzing sound. I used that a lot in COMPANY, which was a show that called for a lot of penetrating, nasty stinging sounds."

Does everyone feel that way about Phyllis? I mean, does everyone feel she is truly sympathetic? I've heard Phyllis been referred to as the true ice queen, which she is but only to a point.
I must be mad to say this, but I disagree with Sondheim about his own song. He says that nothing in the lyrics suggest that she might be lying. Perhaps I'm being misled by the fact that I always heard the song before I ever read the lyrics and actually it was that very same excerpt from SONDHEIM AND CO. that made me go listen to the song, so I already had the idea of the context in which it was being performed. Having said that, I think lyrics like "every morning-don't faint-I tend the flowers," the reference to "umpteen hours," and the "yes, I miss a lot living like a shut-in" section very much suggest that Sally isn't truly happy.
As I said, it is insane of me to disagree with what the writer of the song himself is saying, but still.

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Well, that's the thing. Phyllis is the most sympathetic, but she's not necessarily the most likable.

PS This may be my favorite main board thread ever.

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Updated On: 3/1/07 at 10:14 PM

All four of the main characters (and probably all characters in the show, to some degree) are pretty complex, and lead themselves to various interpretations.

The problem with playing Ben is that you really have to convey that he's someone who could command the attention of these women like he does, what with Sally's lifelong obsession with him and Phyllis staying with him for thirty years. If the audience doesn't buy the appeal of Ben, the stories of Phyllis and Sally fall apart.

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Updated On: 3/9/07 at 03:30 PM

I've always thought that the lines "Living like a shut-in" were where the truth slips out.

Tell me, anyone who saw the concert, did they use the original book? With the line about her attempted suicide?

I always thought that one of the problems with subsequent productions of "Follies" is how the book keeps getting watered down. The impression I get is that they keep trying to make it have a happy ending for both couples.

Yes, Ben and Phyllis, you get the feeling, may still make it work. But Buddy and Sally, not really.

After she has her line, "I should have died. I should have died that first time." Buddy tries to pull her out of it, as, you get the feeling, he has had to do so many times in the past. He says something about tomorrow. She repeats "tomorrow" and then says "Oh, dear God, it is tomorrow."

I have a tape of the original cast and when Dorothy Collins says that line there is such disappointment and despair in her voice, you can feel it like a chill.

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Tell me, anyone who saw the concert, did they use the original book? With the line about her attempted suicide?

The concert book was a combination of the original and the revised version. It was truncated as well. I find it to be a weird mash up of the two at times, but that's only because I have the misfortune of having the script committed to memory.

The lines about her suicide attempt were not in it. All recent revivals dropped those lines, I believe.

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Because once you have mastered the splendor of the original book, you can only get pissed off when subsequent revivals fail to uphold those kinds of lines.

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I once sat down with both copies of the published script and compared them.

I've done that, too. I'd still love to see the 1987 London script, tragic as it must be. I just read somewhere today that Ben doesn't break down in that production.

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Hmmm...I think I would prefer the version where ony Ben breaks down. It's much more powerful that way.
Of course, I didn't see the '87 production, so my opinion doesn't really count.

Updated On: 3/14/07 at 05:24 PM

I thought there was a kind of mass breakdown towards the end of the the London version, though I may be wrong... I actually like 'Make the most of your music' - it was a smug razzmatazz number which fitted nicely with Ben's character. I still prefer Live Laugh Love though