Feminism vs. The Little Mermaid?- Page 2

[misschung]

Posted: 11/1/07 at 5:55pm

Yes, but in the Triton/Ariel relationship, Ariel depends on her father and can't do anything without his permission even in the end when she depends upon him for her physical transformation. This reiterates the theme that a female's advancement and happiness depends on what a male will do for her. She's helpless. She also portrays the gender stereotype of women being caring, sweet, nurturing, and beautiful.

I'm surprised that anyone could see Disney movies as harmless. Disney movies are all about reinforcing the gender binary. You don't have to be dreaming of love all day to still have been drawn into gender roles.


Thank you for finally saying this. Just because Ariel is more proactive than prior Disney princesses doesn't mean that she's not still perpetuating a very gender specific stereotype. Just look at Ursula and Ariel side by side - who is the heroine, and who is the villain? It hasn't come very far from Glinda's 50 year old "only bad witches are ugly" statement.


And the entire link to the world above in this story is the handsome prince. Would she really have sacrificed so much if she wasn't pining and swooning over him?

[Marianne]

Posted: 11/1/07 at 6:37pm

Would she really have sacrificed so much if she wasn't pining and swooning over him?

But he's a symbol for the world above, not an end in himself. Was falling in love with him the final straw that drove her to desperation? Yeah, but slice it the other way: would she have sacrificed so much solely for love, if she weren't already yearning for the human world?

If anything, he's the one who's the passive cipher in the story.

[misschung]

Posted: 11/1/07 at 6:47pm

Yeah, I can see it that way too. He's the vehicle that really forces her to take the final step.

[Elphie3]

Posted: 11/1/07 at 6:54pm

I agree.

And I don't see Triton giving Ariel legs as needing a "male" to help her. Here's how I see it.

There are two, and ONLY two people in the undersea world who have the power to make Ariel a human: Triton, and Ursula (note, one's a female.)

In a perfect world what would happen is Ariel would go to her father, tell him how much she wants to be human, and he, sadly, would give her her wish in a good and healthy way. But, he doesn't because, lets face it, he's prejudiced against humans.

This drives Ariel to seek out the Sea Witch. She is the only other person who can help Ariel, and because of her rather dispicable morals she makes Ariel a human in the worst synerio possible.

Finally at the end - the sea witch, and her spell has been distroyed. So Ariel's back to square one. How to become a human? It's only through the reconciliation of the father/daughter relationship that this is able to take place. It's a symbol for the changing relationship when a girl leaves her parents and gets married. For all we know Ariel's mother had a similar power, but since she's not here it becomes about a father and a daughter. Note that in "The Little Mermaid 2" while it is a HORRIBLE movie, it recreates the same situation as Ariel/Triton with Ariel/Melody - a female relationship.

[BrianS]

Posted: 11/1/07 at 6:57pm

I always remembered the song as "Part of Your World" from watching the movie as a little kid. When I watched it again, I was surprised that I forgot that it was "Part of That World" she sings in the grotto and she only sings POYW for the reprise.

Eric may be a part of what inspires her, but she sings that song about standing on her own and getting answers about the world before she even sees him.

I think it's fine for us to get oversimplified stories to explain the world to us as kids. As we mature, so do our myths that help us understand the world. I mean, did my belief in the tooth fairy really destroy my ability to be responsible with money? Well... bad example, but still...

[misschung]

Posted: 11/1/07 at 6:58pm

is Melody her daughter? Disney's creative juices were flowing that day..

And remember that the fact that there are only two people in the undersea world who have power - Triton and Ursula - isn't just dumb luck. Don't you think the fact that it was written that way says something? As well as the fact that Ariel's mother isn't in this?

I have nothing against this movie - actually, it's my favorite Disney movie. But the gender stereotypes are there, without a doubt.

Updated On: 11/1/07 at 06:58 PM

[Izzie2]

Posted: 11/1/07 at 7:04pm

iunderstand what all of you are saying, but why do we wish to sheild our chilren from knowing what has gone on in years past?

Why do we see a situation where a woman is not in control or dependent on a male as anti-feministic?

I believe that Disney movies are perfectly harmless so long as the child watching has PARENTS who explain to her that happily ever after does not equal a prince.

It is my opinion that people like to blame outside sources for the problems children have rather than looking at the real source: parents.

[Elphie3]

Posted: 11/1/07 at 7:13pm

Good point about "Part of That World" - I always thought the lyric "Bright young women/Sick of swimming/Ready to stand" (as in stand on their own two feet) was pretty femanist for Disney in the late 80's.

Yes, Melody is Ariel's daughter. the basic (brilliant - NOT) plot of the sequal is:

Melody is about ten or eleven years old. And looks like Ariel with her father's black hair. Ariel and Eric have decided to withhold the knowledge of her undersea heratidge from her because apparently Ursula had an evil sister named Morganna (mixing their mythology?) and their worried that if Melody goes into the sea Morganna will hurt her to get revenge for the distruction of her sister. So Melody doesn't even know that mermaids exist, let alone that she is half one.

But, guess what? Melody can't stay away from the water! She feels akward and clumsy on land, and keeps sneaking away from the castle to swim in the ocean. So in a very close parallel to Triton/Ariel, Ariel is always getting mad at Melody for going into the ocean (I even think Melody gives her the "nothing happened" line.) Melody (of course) is blessed with a beautiful voice like her mother.

But some silly thing goes wrong at Melody's big princess coming out birthday party (she trips or something). She decides she's had enough, and takes off for the water. Somehow she ends up meeting Morganna who offers to turn her into a mermaid if she brings her Triton's Triton. Morganna tells Melody that Triton is an evil merman who stole the triton from her and Melody, who has been kept in the dark by her mother, and has not idea that Triton is her Grandfather, goes and steals it (now sporting a horrendous orange tale, and a tank top. (no seashells)).

Triton turns Ariel back into a mermaid temporarily to help retrieve Melody. Melody makes friend with (I think) a dolphin and Sea lion), steals the triton, and gives it to Morganna who then locks her in an underground cave and, oh! Guess what! Just like Ariel's time limit being a human, Melody will only be a mermaid for a few hours, and when she turns back, she'll be trapped underwater.

Of course everything turns out ok. Morganna is killed, Melody meets her underwater family, and Triton tells her she and her mother can go back and forth between being humans and mermaids as often as they like.

I hear they're working on a Little Mermaid 3 - about Ariel's mother Atlana.

[Elphie3]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 9:26am

Bump

[misschung]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 9:32am

But some silly thing goes wrong at Melody's big princess coming out birthday party

heh...heh..

[Elphie3]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 9:51am

?

[candydog2]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:23am

I think we over analyse women's issues in today's society to be honest. I mean, Snow White spent weeks cooking and cleaning for little old men, and Cinderella spent years of her life cooking and cleaning for her stepfamily. I don't think this makes them bad rolemodels for girls. What's so bad about cooking and cleaning? I'd love to see a male Disney character do something like that! We worry so much about female rolemodels and the problems of anorexia and a desire for perfect looks, but we never think about the rolemodels for young boys. Growing up, all I ever had to watch on TV was a family with a mother who would be intelligent, she'd go out to work and come home and solve all problems within the family. The father would usually be dumb, would come home from work, have no idea how to interact with or understand his children, and his wife, the sensible one, would fix things until he learned "the error of his ways".

Now, that always gave me the message that men have learn from women, but women are too good to learn from men. To be honest, that bothers me. But I digress, what I'm really trying to say here is that people often overlook issues where men are the victims of sexism and only look to the women. No one here has yet mentioned the scene from the movie where ARIEL RESCUES ERIC FROM DROWNING! Does this make me feel as though men aren't independant enough to take care of themselves? NO!! There are plenty of times within movies where men depend on women, but people are so busy over-analysing how the women are treated that they forget (or ignore) elements of the story where this happens.

[Marianne]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:27am

Oh yes, the poor, poor oppressed men. How can we ever help their pitiful lot in life?

[don logan]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:30am

I'm suprised no one brought up the feminist message of legally blonde, which is that a woman can accomplish anything if she is beautiful and rich.

[candydog2]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:34am

Well now Marianne, be as sarcastic as you like, but in my opinion, women look down their noses at men. Just listen to any conversation between a group of women about their dimwitted husbands. And don't get me started on father's rights! Well, I mean I would... if we actually had any.....

[Elphie3]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:35am

I actually agree with candydog - I mean if women are painted as domestic, placid, and beautiful, men are expected to be handsome, daring. and relatively emotionless. I think it goes both ways. I mean, if women in fairy tales are either totally innocent, or horribly wicked and decietful, men are often times just stupid.

But honestly, I don't think Disney movies hurt anything. I think there's a reason that if you stick a little girl (who has never seen either type of film before) in front of a beautiful princess fairy tale, and some other type of film (be it more politically correct, or something non-princessy like The Jungle Book) the Princessy one wins hands down. There's something that speaks to children in those stories, and you can analyze it all you want, but they love it for a reason, whether it's politically correct or no.

Just out of curiosity, what would your ideal politically correct fairy tale look like?

[candydog2]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:47am

Yes, thank you elphie3. I agree that men are often expected to emotionless. We only have ourselves to blame for that though, women couldn't do many things for years, but had men to blame, now men only have themselves to blame for the things that they can't do.
To a certain extent, men have oppressed themselves, although I don't think that's an issue in the little mermaid.

I kinda hate it too though in later Disney movies when the male characters did become more sensitive, but ugly too! At least the Princesses got to be pretty! (I'm half joking here, but I guess it is still an issue).

[Elphie3]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:56am

yeah - I think there's a reason why Disney Fairy Tales do better than any other type of animated film they make. Like it or not they speak to a part of our collective consciousness.

Again, I think it's important to view these things as SYMBOLS, and I think we understand that, even when we're children. Watching fairy tales I never interpreted it as telling me to be pretty, wait for my prince, and clean in the meantime. For me it meant be a good person and anything is possible. And that I think is an important universal message.

[ashbash1990]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 10:15pm

Elphie, i have to say, when i was a little, i watched the jungle book every day for like 2 years straight, it was my FAVORITE Disney movie... Just throwing that out there...

[misschung]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:17pm

It's a great universal message, but not every little girl is going to interpret it that way.

I absolutely think that the gender stereotype goes both ways. I wouldn't necessarily want Prince Eric to be a role model for my son, or husband.

[Elphie3]

Posted: 11/2/07 at 11:33pm

Totally get what you're saying about The Jungle Book. I had quite a thing for Pinnochio myself. :) I just mean that the majority of little girls would vote hands down for a "Princess" movie.

I'm curious what a truly politically correct fairy tale would look like (not one that's poking fun at Political Correctness.) I'm wondering in the upcoming "Enchanted" is trying to take a stab at that.