Forbidden Broadway/Legal Question

I am not sure but isn't parody and satire protected by law?

I think they have to get permission from the creators of the shows that they are using the music from.

Not only do they have permission, they are given the music by the composers. You certainly would not want your music played incorrectly by someone who didn't have access to the real sheet music.

The real insult is being connected with a show that Forbidden Broadway DOESN'T wat to make fun of.

You don't have to have permission to parody things as long as you have some alteration. Since other posters have indicated Forbidden Broadway uses the exact melodies of the shows it's mocking, obviously it would need permission. Dog Sees God, on the other hand, mostly evokes the well-known characters of Peanuts with aliases like "C.B.", so I assume that show is an unauthorized takeoff on the original material.

And the "Optional Link" field is your friend, people. I'm begging you.

Updated On: 12/29/05 at 01:01 AM

Can you not use a certain melody as long as you dont go past 8 notes or some number like that?

Parodies do not have to legally authorized though. For example, there are plenty of unauthorized books and biographies on book shelves that sell very well.

Forbidden Broadway does get permission from the composers to use the music.

Early on, Andrew Loyd Webber wouldn't give his permission for Phantom of the Opera and you'll notice on cd #2 that for that sequence, they had to use other music.

---

You don't need permission to make a parody. Period. It's a merging of the First Amendment with copyright law. While FB gets permission for the music, he doesn't need it. The song as a whole is the parody, and it would be the burden of the copyright holder to prove that anyone would confuse it with the legitimate song (which is the main point of copyright law). It's very complex, but FB wouldn't lose a lawsuit (though it would for its Spamalot parody where they actually sing about half of The Song that Goes Like This before the words actually change).

Back when I was a poor struggling actor in NYC in the -'80s, I waited tables (off and on) for two years at Palsson's Supper Club, where "Forbidden Broadway" was playing. I worked the show several times as well as the Box Office for F.B.

I can tell you that because this is performed as a regular scripted show (as opposed to a "variety" show where the line up can and does change from night to night), they are legally responsible for clearing the rights and addressing any royalty issues for the songs they use.

When the show first opened it was more difficult because nobody knew what F.B. was, and a few composers and "rights holders" weren't eager to let them use the material for free. Some agreed to let them use it for the show, but not for the cast recording. You'll notice the "Johnny One Note" parody "Liza One Note" had to be altered for the initial cast album so that it wasn't a direct lift of the song. They couldn't legally clear it.

Once the show opened initially, most composers gave Gerard free use of their material (including the Rodgers & Hammerstein estate, which I know for a fact). Basically, they said, "use whatever you want to, it's fine with us. No charge." That was 20 years ago, though.

Even the actors have gotten involved. Ann Miller (God, I lover her) gave Forbidden Broadway one of her own wigs, saying playfully, "at least get the hair right."

I'll bet now a few of the rights holders have come back, realizing how big of an institution it's become, and asked for royalty money. I'm speculating on that, and haven't been associated with F.B. in any capacity for years.

Bottom line is I only know what was happening back then... not how it's approached now.

But, yes, legally they must clear the songs for use.

---

Updated On: 12/29/05 at 10:50 AM

I'm remembering a few other things about this. (It's been 20 years, so I'm allowed.)

The big legal question was whether or not it was a true "variety" show or a scripted show. That much I remember. If the songs appeared regularly in the same line-up, show after show, it was not protected as an impromptu or one-shot variety show. I remember Gerard and the cast posting new "line-ups" every night back stage, just inside the entrance curtain. This was to help with remembering costume changes, but also show anyone (for legal reasons) that the show was "slightly different" each time. I thought that was a bit of a desperate attempt, but they were trying anything to get rid of any potential legal action. In reality, the show does change when new numbers go in, and old ones are removed, but it's not that often. And certainly not at all, when the show first opened.

Ultimately they received full permission to use the material from just about everyone you can name, so the point became moot.

As far as this being protected as a "parody," that doesn't remotely come into play if you're lifting the music note-for-note. That's not parody, it's theft if you don't have permission. The lyrics are parody and the "caricatures" are parody... but not the music. That's where the legal issues came into play.

---

Updated On: 12/29/05 at 11:30 AM

Fosse76 --- Forbidden Broadway's source music isn't protected for free use as a "parody." That much I'm positive about.

YOU tell ME why it isn't, then.

---

Updated On: 12/29/05 at 11:48 AM

So basically, Gerard's general concern about it, the producers concern about it, and Palsson Supper Club's concern about it... was just a big hallucination on my part?

...And Gerard just decided to change the melodies to "Johnny One Note" and all the Phantom of the Opera music because he liked his own melodic bastardized versions of these two parodies better?

Yeah... that makes sense.

---

"...And Gerard just decided to change the melodies to "Johnny One Note" and all the Phantom of the Opera music because he liked his own melodic bastardized versions of these two parodies better?

Yeah... that makes sense. "

Well, as I just added, it's ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry. And the legal question wasn't answered until 1992. But you cannot make a parody of a song without the song's music (that's just basic logic). I am just merely stating what the law is. And I'm telling you, the music of a song is fair use for parody.