Grey Gardens- Page 2

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:01am

'But here's the thing. Most people have no connection whatsoever to "Grey Gardens."
My question remains. Who is going to buy tickets for this thing?'

so why bother folks? the show isn't based on a famous film or book. people never see shows they don't instantly recognize.

the film has cult classic status. ebersole got reviews of a lifetime.

but more importantly, thank God something different is being produced on broadway.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:01am

"My question remains. Who is going to buy tickets for this thing?"

Maybe the same people that bought tickets for CAROLINE, OR CHANGE. And the same people who will buy tickets to SPRING AWAKENING or BERNARDA ALBA or PASSION or HEDWIG or THE HIGHEST YELLOW. People who attended WALMARTOPIA this year and [title of show] last year. People whose September is already packed with shows from the NYMTF.

People who are willing to give less blatantly 'commercial' themes and new writers a chance.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:06am

you keep saying that grey gardens is not great. I marvel at your psychic abilities or ability to time travel, seeing how the revised verion of the show has yet to be seen. the set hasn't even been loaded in, and yet you already know how the broadway production will be.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:06am

"Maybe the same people that bought tickets for CAROLINE, OR CHANGE. And the same people who will buy tickets to SPRING AWAKENING or BERNARDA ALBA or PASSION or HEDWIG or THE HIGHEST YELLOW."

Excellent response, darling. But here's the thing. "Caroline, Or Change," and "Passion," Were brilliant. And yet, there was no audience for them. They both closed at a huge loss. Tragic, but true. And honestly, "Grey Gardens" is no "Passion."
Updated On: 9/1/06 at 10:06 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:14am

thus, the lesson here is that broadway is not the place for art. only produce surefire hits. don't try. don't even think about it.

just go back downtown, mr. artsy fartsy playwright and mr. edgy wedgy composer. the big boys here are dancing animals, jukebox tunes, and spectacle. don't you know that money makes the world go 'round?

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:16am

"Caroline, Or Change," and "Passion," Were brilliant. And yet, there was no audience for them.

I agree. But remember, we may think they were brilliant. But a good number of my theater-going friends felt about them as you do about GREY GARDENS.

One could just as easily say, "A story about a miserable black maid to a Southern Jewish family? And she WHINES all the time! And the appliances SING?! Too artsy and depressing. Who's gonna pay good money to see that?"

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:17am

"you keep saying that grey gardens is not great. I marvel at your psychic abilities or ability to time travel, seeing how the revised verion of the show has yet to be seen. the set hasn't even been loaded in, and yet you already know how the broadway production will be."

Angel, you're not listening. Of course I have not seen the revised "Grey Gardens," but neither have you, unless you're in it.

Honestly, I wanted this show to be great. It just wasn't. And I doubt that rewriting three songs in the first act is going to help.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:22am

""Caroline, Or Change," and "Passion," Were brilliant. And yet, there was no audience for them.

I agree. But remember, we may think they were brilliant. But a good number of my theater-going friends felt about them as you do about GREY GARDENS.

One could just as easily say, "A story about a miserable black maid to a Southern Jewish family? And she WHINES all the time! And the appliances SING?! Too artsy and depressing. Who's gonna pay good money to see that?"


Thanks, love. It puts it into perspective.

[Barihunk]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:23am

I have yet to see Grey Gardens but am a huge fan of the film. After listening to the cast album I am very intrigued and will definitely try to catch it.

Veuve - you seem to have valid concerns about the material and are certainly passionate in your opinion. IMHO I am fairly certain the producers of this show know that they have an uphill battle to climb in terms of selling tickets, but they probably feel it a worthwhile effort to showcase Ebersole's universally praised performance. They booked the Walter Kerr which is about 600 seats smaller than most musical houses - that should help some. I think their mistake is opening it in the fall. They will have to wait out those winter doldrums for the award season and hope voters have not forgotten them. My question for you is should producers only develop shows that have guaranteed box office appeal?

Also, in an unrelated topic, as I downloaded the album from iTunes - can someone give me an idea of the context/staging of "Entering Grey Gardens". It seems to come out of nowhere (and sounds a bit too much like "Morphine Tango" from Spider Woman for my tastes...). Thanks.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:24am

i'm not declaring if the show will be good or bad. i'm saying we don't know to say either way.

and my understanding is that more than revising 3 songs will be taking place.

so while you have every right to state your critique of the ob production, you need to stop declaring what a production none of us have seen will be like. if your opinion does not change, fine.

again, allow the writing process to take place.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:27am

""Caroline, Or Change," and "Passion," Were brilliant. And yet, there was no audience for them.

I agree. But remember, we may think they were brilliant. But a good number of my theater-going friends felt about them as you do about GREY GARDENS.

One could just as easily say, "A story about a miserable black maid to a Southern Jewish family? And she WHINES all the time! And the appliances SING?! Too artsy and depressing. Who's gonna pay good money to see that?"


Thanks, love. It puts it into perspective. But I've never been in this situation before. I've had to defend "Man of La Mancha." I've spent a huge amount of time defending "Bat Boy." But this is new.

That said, your summation of "Caroline or Change" is excatly what happened. I think that show is genius. I think everybody on earth should have bought a ticket. But they didn't. I don't think they'll buy "Grey Gardens" tickets either.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:33am

Barihunk:

"Entering Grey Gardens" takes place in Act 2, as Little Edie goes up to the attic to feed the cats. It's a psychological dream sequence of sorts. As Edie empties the cans and puts the plates on the floor, the stage revolves and images from the documentary of the cats and racoons and general squalor are projected on the walls. The characters from Edie's past from Act 1 - Jackie and Lee, the 'young' Little Edie , Gould and Major Bouvier surround her and comment in song on her pathetic present-day state. She is oblivious to them.


VC: We all have our favorite oddball shows we love when the rest of the world scratches their heads in bewilderment. After seeing a school production of RADIANT BABY last year, I am kicking myself for missing the full-scale production of it at Lincoln Center. I found much of it thrilling and moving and "Draw Me A Door" is to me, one of the great musical theater songs of the past decade. I saw SONGS FROM AN UNMADE BED at the New York Theater Workshop eight times last year and at every performance I was a mess of tears. I dragged anyone I could to see it. Yet it closed a week earlier than it was intented to.

Updated On: 9/1/06 at 10:33 AM

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:34am

"My question for you is should producers only develop shows that have guaranteed box office appeal? "

Ooh, that's a horrible question. Michael John LaCuisa has no box office appeal, does that mean we shouldn't see his brilliant shows?

Of course not.

BUT -- my problem with "Grey Gardens" is simply it isn't that good. The production that I saw, anyhow, should never be compared with "Caroline" or "Passion." Again, I ask, did you see it?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:39am

because of the release of the new footage, gg has gotten a lot of free press. I imagine ew will be supporting it as I believe they did when it was ob.

if the marketing and publicity is smart, it will make allusions to this being jackie o's family and the connection to the kennedys.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:46am

"because of the release of the new footage, gg has gotten a lot of free press. I imagine ew will be supporting it as I believe they did when it was ob.

if the marketing and publicity is smart, it will make allusions to this being jackie o's family and the connection to the kennedys."

Yes, well blah blah blah. You didn't actually see this show, did you?

Talk to me after you have.

[Barihunk]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:47am

Thanks Master - that makes sense and helps a lot!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 10:57am

vc, you talk to us after you see the broadway version.

I can discuss the writing of the piece even if I didn't see the ob. and, no, I don't mean just the cast recording.

how that relates to the marketing (the crux of your debate here) and why you feel the need to blah blah blah an opinion that the marketing can work is beyond me. you sound like you wish the show would flop.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 11:06am

"vc, you talk to us after you see the broadway version.

I can discuss the writing of the piece even if I didn't see the ob. and, no, I don't mean just the cast recording."

So my opinion of the show is less important than yours? JRB, you're making no sense. You didn't see it. I did. Period.

Of course we can disucss the writing of the piece. But I'm not sure what you're discussing. I saw a show, you listened to a cast album. Don't denegrate me for your faults.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 11:14am

I said I didn't just hear the cast recording.

we've been debating the writing and the marketability of the show and whether or not anyone of us can say how good the broadway production will be.

don't fault me for your lack of reading and comprehension skills.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 11:27am

Whatever, JRB.

What we've been talking about is "Grey Gardens", and you obviously have no connection with it whatsoever. You obviously have never seen it, and according to your last post, you haven't even listened to the cast album. Your opinion, therefore, is meaningless.

Updated On: 9/1/06 at 11:27 AM

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 11:52am

I think the show is different and little and beautiful and therefore needs to be on Broadway amid the non-descript Disney machine, the Oprah machine, the celebrity casting machine and other commercial leviathans that inhabit Broadway. It is a work in progress, which theatre is all about. EVOLUTION. It boils down the the fact that there are 2 stunning, committed actresses in this piece. It might not be perfect, but what piece of theatre is. NONE ARE. The story will resonate with some and feel cold to others. That's the nature of the beast.

I have to say, however, that if Christine Ebersole's rendition of "Around the World" does not break your heart, I wonder if that person has a heart.

I am totally excited by this new work. I think Broadway is missing a lot of new work that isn't designed to hit you over the head or explode in your face. I am counting the minutes to this show, which depicts real people with real struggles-the complex dynamics of family, humanity, mental illness, codependence, and ultimately love and connection.

Bring it on!!!!!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 12:03pm

for the third time, I have heard the cast recording and have read the script. I can discuss the writing perfectly well. if we were debating the performances, design, or direction, you would have a point.

and if nullifying my opinions on the matters we have been debating (which I am fully qualified to discuss) makes you feel better or that you win the argument, you just go ahead a delight yourself with that notion.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 12:04pm

I think the show is different and little and beautiful and therefore needs to be on Broadway amid the non-descript Disney machine, the Oprah machine, the celebrity casting machine and other commercial leviathans that inhabit Broadway. It is a work in progress, which theatre is all about. EVOLUTION. It boils down the the fact that there are 2 stunning, committed actresses in this piece. It might not be perfect, but what piece of theatre is. NONE ARE. The story will resonate with some and feel cold to others. That's the nature of the beast.

I have to say, however, that if Christine Ebersole's rendition of "Around the World" does not break your heart, I wonder if that person has a heart.

"I am totally excited by this new work. I think Broadway is missing a lot of new work that isn't designed to hit you over the head or explode in your face. I am counting the minutes to this show, which depicts real people with real struggles-the complex dynamics of family, humanity, mental illness, codependence, and ultimately love and connection.

Bring it on!!!!!"

Sweetie? You rock!

I love that you love theatre. I do too.

But "Grey Gardens" is not great theatre. "Caroline, or Change" was great theatre. "Sunday in the Park with George" is great theatre. I'm just saying.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 12:08pm

Veuve, glad you like theatre as well. I am still excited it is coming to Broadway. Also, Veuve, since you say you love theatre, I hope you will see the piece again and re-examine it. Because, in a sense, you haven't seen the finished show. You saw a workshop or a preview. After I see it and you see it again, we can discuss. Cheers!!

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 9/1/06 at 12:13pm

"for the third time, I have heard the cast recording and have read the script. I can discuss the writing perfectly well. if we were debating the performances, design, or direction, you would have a point.

and if nullifying my opinions on the matters we have been debating (which I am fully qualified to discuss) makes you feel better or that you win the argument, you just go ahead a delight yourself with that notion.

Again, I am NOT nullifying your opinion. I have an opinion about "Grey Gardens." I sat through it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps "Grey Gardens" is the greatest musical ever. If you had actually seen it, you might be able to converse with me. BUT YOU HAVEN'T.